Sorry guys, I'm reconverting…

You can forward my message below to both believers and non-believers alike.

There are many kind hearted people, some are educated some aren’t, or they do not care they are living with rational people. Belief in a great many mysteries and things is good but now that I try to think about it, oftentimes I feel most enlightened overall. Of course to them (rationalists) I become foolish and irrational for believing and for being defensive of religion. When I began it (faith), it comes as revelations to me in matters of hopes concerning the true religion. We ask why believe it? Must you ask religion to not be at all special? Of course one must be very polite to likely impart a reason since, this is faith. Perhaps because non-believers think most believing people, of course including us Bible readers, were not well taught in logic, and that we indoctrinated and convinced as many innocent children we’d found. To believe and not ask any question about the matters of God, of our heavenly faith. You and I are brothers. Can’t religion triumph? Prevent it not. Myself included, we’re from this moment questioning not faith, my personal revelations, beliefs, nor God. Every moment is time well spent, I think, to reflect on God, on his mercy. My skepticism’s now past. Returning to religious status, my convictions have changed. I now solemnly arrive to serve at God’s feet. The one true conclusion is such that of mine. A loving, forgiving, personal, and merciful God the almighty, is certainly not absurd.

Or is it?

116 comments

  1. KABAKLAAN!

    "My skepticism’s now past. Returning to religious status, my convictions have changed. I now solemnly arrive to serve at God’s feet. The one true conclusion is such that of mine. A loving, forgiving, personal, and merciful God the almighty, is certainly not absurd."

        • I didn't notice the bottom link, I thought it was just a few underlined words. But I noticed from the thread that something was up 🙂

          • Yes, if you're quite an astute observer among other things you should notice something's up. 🙂
            Oh and you might want to check the bottom link, it's a pseudo-secret link leading to a short explanation of the piece. Peace. 🙂

  2. To be..or not to be?

    Let them go, we are all free to do as we please so long as it is not harmful. Their post/announcement/declaration, does not offend me. Goodluck to them. FF will always be here for everyone. Its for human beings.

    Magandang araw po sa lahat.

  3. be strong in the freethinker faith sister. dont reconvert. you have to watch george carlin preach everyday or at least twice a week to strengthen your belief system. dont waste your time reconverting,look around you, disease, war, famine, pestilence, are these the things the best god can do? or if there's a god, will he allow this to happend to his creatures? or if you're a god would you do this to us? reconverting is like eating back what you have puked out, try going at it for a while, only then you will realize through the darkness of christ that god hates us all.

  4. @Jungle Boy/Carlos Gonzales

    “Accept what you cannot change, Change what you can”

    Quite right more or less I suppose. But then, 'something which one can't change' can be something relative also no?

    • @f241vc15
      Yes you'll never know if something can be changed until you try.

      "Something that one cannot change is one's past. But you can still do something about your future."

      Ah this is why it connected with me. At least now I saw how to fix it

      • @Jungle Boy

        We're talking about the FF forums here aren't we? 🙂

        Anyway, in general relativistic sense, a universe with only one 'stream of time' and which allows one to travel back in time has a lot of paradoxes in it, so I think it's quite unlikely that a universe like that exists.
        In the many worlds hypothesis though, you can travel back in time to change things, although that 'time' where you traveled back to won't be the 'time' you were initially from. Instead, you would have traveled to another parallel universe, with the only difference between the two universes is that one is a chronologically earlier version of the universe from where you came from. 🙂

    • @Wes

      Damn, that is such a great idea. 🙂 Maybe I should have reposted it since it got a bit buried, no? 🙂 Then people who've not seen it yet will go like WTF? (What's This F241vc15?). 😉

      I'll see if I can make something like this soon, or fit the occasion, if I'm not too busy with professional and personal stuff. 😉

    • @Jungle Boy

      Oh I hardly think you wasted my time. Thanks for dropping by the FF site though, and please feel free to come back again and maybe even tell it to some of your own friends who need respite from the inconveniences of belief and religion. Maybe some time in the future you or your friends won't be too mum and will be a little more outspoken with your non-beliefs.
      You're welcome btw.

        • @Jungle boy

          I don't think that should really be a problem, unless push comes to shove I think.
          Anyway, like I said, you can just mostly participate online (like I do, since I'm quite busy) or you can also attend FF meetups or major events. Your call, as long as you don't further contribute to the mass delusion that concerns most religions. 😉

  5. I don't have an answer for that yet. I'm not an outspoken atheist. I just try to coexist with others and their beliefs even if i think that they are blind. To the point that I'm Invisible to them. I try though to influence their movements indirectly whenever I can. For the Good ofcourse. I kinda think I'm a humanist like some of you are.

    But when somebody asks me "Naniniwala ka ba sa Diyos?" I can't DEFINE it to them because if I say 'Hinde' They'd be repulsed. And I can't say Yes with conviction. The few times I've been asked, I didn't need to answer because they already had chosen an answer in their mind of what I am. But I guess they wouldn't ask that question in the first place if they didn't see that there was something different about me or that I didn't share their views about what's right and wrong.

    But I carry the INFLUENCES of the different idealogies that I've come across throughout my experiences into what i think or "believe" right now. I like to COLLECT ideas but I don't know what to do with them. And I find some hard to understand like some of what you talk about on this site.
    Also, I can be too easy to influence so I try to keep away from people trying trying to make me into something that they want.

    Cheers! Tnx for letting me do this.

    • @Jungle Boy

      I would suggest you read this earlier post of mine regarding answering the questions of people regarding your stand or what you believe in: http://f241vc15.wordpress.com/2008/07/25/academic
      It's by renowned logician and philosopher Bertrand Russel. 🙂
      Again, you can't really be a freethinker if you don't use reason and logic and science to reach your conclusions. Good luck on your endeavors and please do visit this site or our members site for more info and conversation regarding topics under the freethinking umbrella.

      Oh and keep coming back here for announcements of meetups and FF activities around and outside the Metro. I'm quite sure a lot of people here would like to see another freethinker get added to our events.

  6. Well in our world. Theism is the "norm". It's extremely hard to go against the norm it's like going against the flow of the river. And if you try to hold your ground you will break.
    You might win for moment but then you'll lose in the end.

    From the beginning our whole life is built to live for the glory of God. We are not taught to live for any other reason. So we don't know of anything else then this life that we have.

    When I was having that Atheism phase, I was rebelling against God but what I was actually rebelling at was my family. If I could prove that there was no God. Then I wouldn't be waiting and waiting for his reply. My prayers were not answered. At first I was disappointed, then I became angry. And now my prayers haven't been answered, my family is still the same and I'm still angry but I'm miserable. All this struggle made my life worse and I missed the train of my life.

    I didn't want God's attention I wanted something more tangible.

    • @Carlos Gonzales

      I think I know what you just said here, since I grew up in quite religious families, both mother and father side. But something being the norm doesn't make it right or true, no? Or to put and look at it from another cliche, might doesn't make right.
      Maybe that so called atheism phase of yours wasn't really about atheism but as you said, you about being angry at your family. I don't think that's what atheism is all about or at least, non-belief and freethinking.
      We'd like to hear/read more of you though. Thanks for dropping by and sharing your thoughts.

      • Hi same guy here <-Carlos Gonzales.

        Basically I got brainwashed. They made me see a psychiatrist who was no different from them because they were so blind as to what was happening to me when I was arguing with them to change the way they treat me. And I was so young then. I just acted in response to what they did. Now the meds have made me into a zombie.

        • @Jungle Boy/Carlos Gonzales

          Oh that's quite unfortunate, for you to have gone through that experience. A lot of parents think they're doing doing their kids a lot of good via proselytizing to them, which is such a shame.
          By zombie you mean something like a thrall to their beliefs, is that what you're saying?
          I wonder though what your stand is now? Theist? Deist? Agnostic? Atheist?
          You can check the rest of the 'belief spectrum here': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectrum_of_theistic
          I myself am more of a 6. 🙂
          So, are you willing to send to your friends or relatives my short message above? 🙂

  7. NO NO NO NO!!!

    God is real.

    Everybody in this forum, reading and commenting will burn in hell.

    You will all be punished for your sins.

    Hehehehe…. i think i just pushed the right button on this atheist people. They just can't help arguing with people who sound like their Christian Living teacher in high school.

  8. good for you. at least you are different. im talking about the zombies. you should read more on how people are so defensive or aggressive about these newly found so called group. they defend it as if they are talking about pacquiao vs mayweather. anyway, just dropped by to see this site i heard on the radio. cheers everyone. again take it easy (not you again, them).

    • Oh I see. Thanks for dropping by then, you can always come back anytime. And perhaps you can even tell your friends about this site. 🙂

      You'd be surprised how variable we non-believers can be. Some are atheists but still believe in ghosts (not me), while some don't (including me). 🙂

        • Oh it's quite easy to imagine actually.

          You see, atheism refers only to the belief/opinion/POV that there is no God. But it doesn't exclude the fact that that person still believes in fairies or ghosts or what have you.

          Anyway, you're welcome amigo. 🙂

  9. There was a story of two fathers who brought their kids to watch a basketball game. The first father scrutinized and criticized every detail of the game. The other father just watched the game, savored and enjoyed every minute of the game. At the end of the game, the kid of the 1st father asked if he enjoyed the game. The first father said NO, everything was wrong from start until the end of the game, he even felt stressed for even watching a stupid game to begin with. The child of the second father asked the same thing, and his father said I enjoyed the game not because of its design or how it was played, I enjoyed the game because it was a moment I could be with you.

    Moral story: Take it easy guys. Life is about enjoying the moment. There is more to life than just trying to explain and explain and explain things around you. Try figuring out your own emotions and feelings, that is already as complex as the arguments being fought on this forum. Don't be like an invention critic, its not healthy getting a sense of satisfaction in finding fault in the creation of others.

    • Obviously I can't speak for everybody here, but I don't waste my time criticizing and picking nits, since I have better and more productive things to do with my life.
      I do however, live my life in a secularly humanistic way, and apply reason and science to it. I don't see how that can negatively affect the way I see the beauty of life, love, and everything around me. In fact, I think it enhances it even more.

    • okay there are many moments where i am like the first father. and it really sucks. like when i'm watching horror movies. i don't get scared (which is supposed to be the point of watching horror flicks) because i'm too busy checking out and being impressed or disappointed with the effects. the only horror movie that i really got scared with was blair witch project – no effects there. lol!

      anyway, i don't agree with you. it's a case to case basis. if we just satisfy ourselves with enjoying the moment all the time, nothing will ever improve, we'll still be in the caveman days. in the situation you presented, it may be the best approach if you're the father. but what if you're the coach? you can't just say to your team "i enjoyed the game because it was a moment I could be with you" lol! not every scenario in life corresponds to the father's situation.

      now, about religion. in japan everyone is born and raised freethinkers. they may have traditional buddhist ceremonies and stuff but they don't really have religious practices that have some impact in their lives. so this would be their situation. religion, whether christian, muslim, or nothing, wouldn't have any impact on them. they would be like the father in your scenario. (fyi, the first time i heard the word "freethinker" was from a japanese boss of mine. i thought he was making it up to imply that he doesn't have a religion — we were talking about christmas and how christians celebrate it, coz they don't really celebrate christmas there. well apparently, it's actually a real english word)

      but here, it's not like in japan, and i personally have seen misguided folks who cling to their religion as a means of.. whatever. and it affects how they deal with other people. the catholic church is a huge force to deal with and they impose their beliefs and ideals on the masses, and even on our laws. but no everyone agrees with them. in fact, i personally believe they are encouraging narrow-mindedness. the point is, the culture of religion in this country has affected me and others, and it is very real to us, it's not just some game that was meant to entertain. in this scenario, we are not the fathers bringing our kids to the game. we are the players (or coaches, or referees, etc…)

      but i do admit that i get over-analytical sometimes which isn't a good thing.

      anyway, this is just my opinion.

      • @sathepine
        Right, mediocrity usually doesn't leave room for improvement.

        In Japan, they raised as freethinkers? Really now? I think this is the first time I've heard about this. Then again, Buddhism doesn't really follow a deity figure/type.

        In my opinion, probably because I get too analytical oftentimes, I think that's a good thing with you and your over-analysis. Just check out some of my posts here for a sneak peak of what a 'hell' my mind can be oftentimes, especially for many people. 🙂

        Thanks for your opinions. 🙂

        • Buddhism is not really a religion, it's a way of life (detach yourself from the world, the concept of zen, etc). But even most of the Japanese themselves don't really follow the Buddhist way of life except maybe those who are monks in the temples, etc. There's also Shintoism, which has many deities, I think, but this is not really something they actively practice.

          Maybe they do some Buddhist and maybe Shintoism rituals during occasions like deaths, weddings, etc, but that's all.

          There are Catholic churches there, but most of the churchgoers are foreigners (not to mention pinoys).

          And they "celebrate" Christmas somewhat like Valentines Day. Stores are having Christmas sales, there are Christmas Trees and decors everywhere, maybe they themselves give each other presents, etc. But it's not a holiday, there is no Christmas break, December 25 is a working day. But there is a week-long winter break after New Year 😀

          Some may be fascinated or curious about Christianity but not to the point of actually becoming a Christian. To them it's like some club that seems cool but not really their thing.

          (These are just based on my observations, okay? And these comprise just an inkling of the cultural differences between Japanese and Filipinos.)

          • Yes Buddhism isn't really a religion per se. Not like the other 'ism' religions who have deities giving humans moral codes or compasses.

            And your observations and opinions are very much welcome @Sathepine. Thanks again, and keep them coming. 🙂

          • i have to disagree with this statement…

            –Buddhism is not really a religion, it’s a way of life (detach yourself from the world, the concept of zen, etc)–

            "People who say Buddhism is a philosophy and not a religion usually mean it as a compliment. They are trying to say, I think, that Buddhism is something other than the superstitious rubbish they believe religion to be."

            "In this view, religion is a jumble of primitive folklore that humankind drags through the ages like a cosmic security blanket. Religion is passionate and irrational and messy. But philosophy is the flower of human intellect. It is reasonable and civilized. Religion inspires war and atrocity; at worst, philosophy incites mild arguments over coffee and dessert"

            By Barbara O'Brien, About.com Guide

          • Sorry for copying and posting an article from another site… cu'z it's a bit hard for me to express it in words..

            And i believe the article Barbara wrote is the exact words that i need to describe or to argue "Why Buddhism is a Religion"

            And Remember.. Buddhism is a NonTheist Religion.. It doesn't mean that Buddhism have no God doesnt mean it's not a religion..
            As the Historical Buddha said.. Believing in a God or Deity is not Essential to Attain Enlightenment.. You can either believe or not..

            Sorry for posting an arguing about this..
            I find Free Thinker Philippines to be so Helpful..
            Specially in making argument about something that really needs "An Open Mind" Discussion..

            Sowe.. im not Good at English.. Never mind the Wrong Grammar..

          • 2-cents of the resident Buddhist here chiming in, and sorry to the author for the thread hijack, I'll try to do an article on neo-buddhism soon so it won't impinge on other posts 🙂

            Religion could be defined as a belief system based on the worship of something, without something to worship like in the case of Buddhism, how can you still call it 'religion'? There's a bit of superstitious nonsense everywhere you look and I tend to ignore those mystical mumbo-jumbo in Buddhism myself, but its far in between.

            Take for example the Filipino culture (not catholicism, just the native folk traditions)… there's still a lot of backward, primitive superstitions that are carried over today, but we don't call it a 'religion' now, do we?

  10. Hey come on fellow Filipino freethinkers! Let's gang up on this guy and let him have it! Let's show him how bigoted and narrow minded we are! 😀

    (FYI that is sarcasm) 🙂

  11. There are no evidences that you can deny or affirm that there is a god… Now how can we know that there is GOD? Stop and think… Check your heart… Your brain doesnt understand all things… Make sense?

  12. @To Be

    Eh? Are you reconverting or do you mean to say that reconversion is nonsense?

    @Cedric

    I am of the opinion that I would be crazy i.e. delusional if I reconvert.

  13. I am sorry Guys.

    I am reconverting too.

    Since I love the Philippines. I will go back to her God.

    I believe in Bathala now.

    He watches over us.

    And he guided the colonizers away from our land.

    Shouldn't we go back to him after giving us back our freedom due to our sinfulness?

    Nonsense LOL.

  14. Reading that article, somehow I got enlightened. I'm also sorry guys, I am also reconverting to an earlier and more pristine belief. As a child, i used to enjoy christmas without ever trying to rationalize it either by belief or disbelief in Jesus. So I hope you understand me also when I say I believe in SANTA CLAUS again!!!

    Please if you forward that story of reconverting to others, I hope you also include my version.

    Thanks & Regards, Red Rudolph

  15. @Kahlil

    Welcome to FF then. 🙂 Hopefully I'll be able to do more posts like this in the future, and hopefully we'll be seeing/hearing/reading from you soon as well. 😉

  16. @daniel

    Me, be friendly to whom? Believers? I don't think I was in anyway antagonizing in this post of mine. Or was I? 🙂 I merely stated my stand on the matter.

  17. @Sathepine

    I think I can manage to do something similar/close to this in the future…stay tuned. 🙂

    @Johnny

    It seems that you did get the "message" of my message. 🙂 Were the hints/clues given by other FFers here helpful? 🙂
    Unfortunately that is a sad fact, that to talk about atheism in public is such an ignominious act more often than not, both here in the PH and abroad. But Dawkins and the others are doing their part to change that, and so are we no? Slowly but surely. 🙂

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