It is quite clear that in an allegedly secular nation, politicians here in the Philippines are largely guided by their religion, which is more often than not Roman Catholicism. This is evident from the chapels in public institutions such as Philippine Science High School to the President’s “advisers” that invariably include at least one man of the cloth. And, there is truly no cause for complaint, if Roman Catholicism is, in fact, the one true religion.
If you allow that no politician is simply abusing the gullibility of their constituents and that they actually believe in the truth of Roman Catholicism, then the people who govern us are simply running on what they think are accurate observations of the universe. Every prayer before Congress and every “year of our Lord” in Presidential Proclamations are not mere statements of opinion or rhetorical flourishes, these are reiterations of accepted facts. Or, rather, “facts.”
The claims of the religious, whether moral or theological, are factual claims. For the former, moral claims are facts about conscious experience. For the latter, theological claims are facts about how the universe in general operates. Both are claims about how material stuff (particles and such) interact with the world.
Avoiding the unimpressive arguments for the existence of the specific Catholic flavor of Yahweh, let us, like millions of Filipinos, simply take this on faith. How would the much-desired fully-realized Catholic Nation of the Philippines look?
For a start, all faith-based holidays not in the Roman Catholic calendar will be erased. This is because the truth of Catholicism necessarily negates the contradictory truth claims of all other religions, from similar Paganism to largely foreign Hinduism. This shouldn’t worry kids who pray for school cancellations since there’s still pretty much a saint for anything and any day. Secular holidays such as Labor Day may continue to exist, but in the form of feasts for one of the myriad saints “venerated” by Catholics. It may perhaps be replaced by a day for Saint Joseph the Carpenter, a model laborer and cuckold, or for Saint Matthew the Tax Collector, to remind us of the price of civilization.
A Catholic Nation of the Philippines would be different from the Vatican in that it would be a real state—with a permanent population, a defined territory, a functioning government, and a real capacity for diplomatic relations with other states. These are the criteria for statehood set out by international law, which the Vatican arguably does not meet.
Assuming that the Catholic Nation of the Philippines will continue with its sham democracy label (as it does now), there will be an entirely new branch of government to buttress the executive, legislative, and judicial branches—the ecclesiastical. This branch will oversee all actions of the government to make sure that they are in line with the will of God. The head of this branch will be the person who is most keen to discern that will, most likely a Cardinal (someone who God “communicates” with, on matters such as who deserves to be pope). This branch will also supplement (maybe event supplant) departments such as Education, Science and Technology, Health, Treasury, and Public Works and Highways, through prayer. It will hire battalions of “prayer warriors” in lieu of civil servants, since prayer would be enough anyway.
Perhaps surprisingly, religious freedom will have a place in a Catholic nation. Albeit, this will be limited to the private sphere. The Church no longer has any teachings advocating hate against other religions. They have already apologized for their indefensible establishment of the Crusades and the Inquisition. The humanism of the Enlightenment has seen to it that even our historically cruel religious institutions will find the torture and sadism of their past unthinkable. However, religious tests will be required of all members of government to ensure that the nation maintains its course following the will of God. While citizens may be free to believe anything in private, to hold beliefs contrary to Catholicism, when Catholicism is true, is like believing that circles have corners. It’s just absurd. Given the fact of Catholicism, religious freedom would exist as the freedom to be ignorant or insane.
Needless to say, most changes in our legal system will revolve around sex, the favorite whipping boy of Catholicism. Of course, all kinds of pharmaceutical birth control will be outlawed. And, given their definition of human personhood as beginning at some vague point called “when the sperm meets the egg”, all miscarriages will need to be investigated whether foul play was involved. All terminated pregnancies, whether intentional or not, will require death certificates for the unborn. Reflecting the Church’s “pro-life” stance, in vitro fertilization (IVF) will be illegal, and those who participate in it will be accessories to murder (since IVF involves fertilizing multiple eggs and discarding some embryos). Sex outside marriage will be expressly forbidden and periodical hymen checks for the unmarried will help enforce this law. Unwed women who no longer have hymens as a result of strenuous activity (such as horseback riding) or due to congenital or medical reasons will require permits to walk around with their ungodly genitals.
Homosexuality, as a “disordered sexual inclination”, will obviously be regulated. LGBT persons will be sent to ineffective psychiatric care. While they may remain homosexual in orientation, they cannot engage in “homosexual activity,” which will be illegal. Anti-sodomy laws will be passed and those suspected of homosexual activity will be prosecuted.
Like here in our universe, child rapists who happen to be priests will continue to enjoy impunity from the Catholic Church. The worst punishment, if any, they will ever receive would be removal from Holy Orders.
Jails and prisons will continue to exist, and the Philippines might even serve as the Vatican’s prison system (like Italy). Convicts will be forced to undergo religious counseling in order to save their souls (which will include the Sacrament of Penance for baptized Catholics).
But what exactly would a Catholic legal system protect us from? While earthly laws might be used to protect citizens from physical or material harm, Catholic laws will be constructed to protect citizens from hellfire. Dying or temporal suffering is trifling when compared to eternal torture. It would only be rational to true believers of hell to frame all laws in this context. If an act will lead to the eternal damnation of a citizen, it will be forbidden. Since Catholicism is true and all religions are false, the Catholic government’s control over you will not end in death. It will merely be continued by the true celestial dictator in the afterlife.
To accept the rule of Catholicism means that we must surrender our so-called liberties in this life for salvation in the next. The only true freedom is the freedom to choose God’s will over that of our own. This is what gets the monastics through their ascetic lifestyles. This justifies the personal sacrifices of those in religious orders, not to mention the torture and execution of heretics in the past. What is a hundred years in agony and discomfort if it means eternity in bliss? What is the point of establishing peace on Earth if it lasts only in a world that is destined to boil in five billion years from a dying expanding star? The true point of life here is to prove ourselves for the next.
What I’ve painted here is fictional, though I assert that it is not very far from how our world would look if we take Catholicism to its logical conclusions. Because of the cherry-picking of cafeteria Catholics who largely comprise the country, we can be thankful that this vision is rather unlikely. The Roman Catholic Church is far from the monolithic bloc of devotees the CBCP likes to present. We do not live in this disgusting world because most people who identify as Catholics are unconvinced of the orthodox conservative Catholic lifestyle choice of the minority, which is so vastly disconnected from the reality of temporal suffering and tangible well-being.
However, it is only fair to point out that if indeed Catholicism is the right religion, this vision would not be so bad, since it would deter people from acts that would lead to eternal damnation. But it is irredeemably repulsive if heaven does not. This would mean that the sacrifices conservative Catholics force upon pregnant victims of rape and victims of child indoctrination are wasted on nothing. This would mean that we would have to actually build a lasting society here on Earth and stop worrying about what God thinks about our private thoughts.
We have but one life to live. If the conservative Catholics are right, the best way to spend this life is in strict conformity with the will of God. If they are wrong, as tens of thousands of incompatible religions necessarily assert, then the best way to waste your life would be to listen to them and avoid enjoying this life.
Image Credit: Weird Worm
Since we have a whiner about not pointing out what a True Muslim Country would be like, i decided to indulge., since i'm bored. Besides the world at large already knows, it's been done to hell and back, so it will be redundant to make a comprehensive article here. L2Google noob!
as Twin_skies pointed it out: live in Iran http://www.iran-bulletin.org/political_islam/puni…
A True Muslim Country on the top of my head (this is not all of it):
Women can't drive
Women can't walk alone unless accompanied by a male
If an unwed women gets raped she is obligated to marry the rapist or else sentenced to death (similar to Deuteronomy 22:28)
If a women gets raped she is sentenced to death for adultery (similar to Deuteronomy 22:23-24)
Any Islam-born who changes religion (apostasy) is sentenced to death (similar to Chronicles 25:27)
Any and all LGBTs are sentenced to death. (Leviticus 20:13)
Interpret the Koran differently will get you 50 lashes and 2 years in prison
Sentence women to death for suspected witchcraft
and the list goes on.
I can't make this shit up. Only a divinely inspired book can, just like the Good Book!
This is a funny article Bercero. The only reason that you can still say what you say and publish what you publish and demonstrate when you want is because we live in a predominantly Catholic/Christian country. I think you should do a write-up on "What would a true MUSLIM Philippines Look Like"… hehehe let's see, Do you have enough courage to do that?
Always living up to your reputation of bigotry. 😉 At least you're consistent.
Is that the by-word of the FFT anti-Catholics… bigotry? Either you can or can't rise up to the challenge.
//Is that the by-word of the FFT anti-Catholics… bigotry? //
Take your time looking it up in a dictionary, laddie. We know all these big, fancy-schmancy words might be too much for your brain 🙂
//Either you can or can't rise up to the challenge.//
Let me get this straight – Not criticizing Islam = Catholicism is all flowers and kittens?
Whether or not you don't see articles criticizing Islam does not change the fact that your religion's doctrine is full of shit. Have you really sunken so low that you can't say anything without resorting to another logical fallacy?
//The only reason that you can still say what you say and publish what you publish and demonstrate when you want is because we live in a predominantly Catholic/Christian country.//
You have it wrong. The reason we can write with impunity is because we live in a democracy, run by a secular government, with a separation of church and state established in the constitution.
You can ask Fr. Joaquin Bernas all about it too if you don't believe us heathens – he's spoken about the importance of keeping religion out of government time and time again, and has been critical of the CBCP's activities.
Or is he not Catholic enough for you? 😉
And who says it's just Islam that's privy to violent behavior? You seem to have forgotten the sort of death threats and acts of vandalism that your followers committed against people like Mideo and Kenneth Ken.
Now THOSE are acts of Christianity <span class="idc-smiley"><span style="background-position: -36px 0pt;"><span>;)</span></span></span>
And besides, you've just done a wonderful – albeit a thinly veiled – illustration of the logical fallacy of Appeal to Force.
http://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/fallacies_list.html
Dickie, if you really hate our guts that much, you don't have to cower behind passive-aggresive statements like "The only reason that you can still say what you say and publish what you publish and demonstrate…" It makes you look like a spineless bitch. Do it like a real man – threaten to shut us up directly, under threat of your holy wrath.
"You're only able to say that because WE let you!" Isn't any different from you saying "Say that to my face and you'll regret it!"
//I think you should do a write-up on "What would a true MUSLIM Philippines Look Like"//
That's easy – replace every mention of the words Catholic and Christian in the article, and swap in Muslim, and Islam.
Presto! You won't find much of a difference. At least we can understand that the lack of bacon can make anybody anal in an Islamic state. You don't have that inhibition – what's your excuse?
“You have it wrong. The reason we can write with impunity is because we live in a democracy. Or have you forgotten the sort of death threats and acts of vandalism that your followers committed against people like Mideo and Kenneth Keng? Now THOSE are acts of Christianity 😉 “Hahaha yes a democracy established on Judeo-Christian principles. Read our preamble.I cannot defend people who resort to violence so send my most sincere apologies to Mideo and Keng for the un-Christian behavior of people who call themselves Christians. Oh since you said “THOSE are acts of Christianity” can you show me where Christianity TEACHES that? Oops, wait could you have just made a fallacious statement? Good day!
//Hahaha yes a democracy established on Judeo-Christian principles. Read our preamble.//
Have you?
"We, the sovereign Filipino people, imploring the aid of Almighty God…"
Take note that it says God, Szell. It doesn't say that whether it's referring to the Judeo-Christian God, the God of Islam, Buddha, or Zoroaster for that matter.
Now since you brought up Law, have you read the constitution? Article II, Section 6:
[Section 6. The separation of Church and State shall be inviolable. ]
//I cannot defend people who resort to violence so send my most sincere apologies to Mideo and Keng for the un-Christian behavior of people who call themselves Christians. Oh since you said "THOSE are acts of Christianity" can you show me where Christianity TEACHES that? //
Luke 19:27
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them–bring them here and kill them in front of me."
Oh btw, nice attempt at the bleedingly obvious attempt at a True Scotsman fallacy.
Catch you later, Szell 😉
Oh my goodness this is even more hilarious! hahahaha I am floored, so I won't even bother… good day twin skies. I will post this in my upcoming “another 15 ridiculous things… thanks for the material.
More acts of Christianity: People like you trying to justify gay bigotry.
I have to admit that the Intelligent Design theory is entirely your brand of insanity, given that the Catholic Church doesn't see any conflict between its doctrine and the theory of evolution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_…
So do tell us what you're doing following a debunked superstition that your church doesn't endorse?
“Dickie, if you really hate our guts that much, you don’t have to cower behind passive-aggresive statements like “The only reason that you can still say what you say and publish what you publish and demonstrate…” It makes you look like a spineless bitch. Do it like a real man – threaten to shut us up directly, under threat of your holy wrath.”
Tsk tsk tsk… can’t take the heat of criticism. Am I not free to give my views? You want me to threaten you with what un-Christian behavior? Is violence and foul-mouthedness your only gauge of “manliness?” I have been there and I have done that! That’s why it is not going to happen because precisely of my renewed faith. I don’t hate you fellows, in fact I have had some pretty reasonable exchanges from other FFT members. If you can’t take this exchange without trying to provoke me then why not tell your administrators to block me. But then that will show what kind of people you really are right? Good day bloke.
//Am I not free to give my views?//
You are, just don't expect to walk away without being criticized for being a moron.
//Is violence and foul-mouthedness your only gauge of "manliness?"//
No, but it appears to be yours, by saying that we should be happy that the Philippines, as a Christian nation, "allows" us to voice our criticism. You may not see it, but it's obvious to everybody here that you're attempting a passive-aggresive appeal to force, by insinuating that if the opposite were true, and your church decided to silence us, we'd have no room for our opinion.
//If you can't take this exchange without trying to provoke me then why not tell your administrators to block me. //
Szell, hasn't anybody told you? This village wouldn't be complete without a token idiot. Welcome to the herd 😉
//I don't hate you fellows, in fact I have had some pretty reasonable exchanges from other FFT members.//
Much like how you say you "don't hate gays," but have used every opportunity you've had to try to justify discrimination against them with bullshit apologetics.
You're not fooling anybody Szell – we've all seen your blog.
//I have been there and I have done that! That's why it is not going to happen because precisely of my renewed faith.//
Well, I guess everybody has a right to their security blanket.
"The claims of the religious, whether moral or theological, are factual claims. For the former, moral claims are facts about conscious experience. For the latter, theological claims are facts about how the universe in general operates. Both are claims about how material stuff (particles and such) interact with the world."
This from a person who could not even scientifically explain to me how science can explain consciousness.
can you?
give the scientists 50 years 🙂 maybe sooner depending on the advancement of technology. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX8xtUORDh4
can't rush science now can we? afterall it took 300 years for RCC to acknowledge heliocentricism and all they can say is "oops our bad" hehe
then, Goddidit was the explanation for natural phenomenon in the world. now goddidit is just used to fill the gaps science cannot explain yet. that's why religion is afraid, very afraid.
This is hilarious. When someone makes a statement that consciousness is a matter of neuronal interaction and when asked to prove it tells me to wait 50 years what does that say of that person? So you admit that right now you only believe that as a matter of pure faith since your presumed answer may be 50 years coming or never. My friend the Church is not afraid of something that may never come… The Church has been around to see the greatest civilizations rise and fall.You attack people who have faith in God while you practice that same faith towards some lecture in Youtube… hilarious!
Admit to faith? haha please. Your bible verses mean nothing to empirical data nor does it matter to me. development of technology won't just advance on your say so Dick.
The church unafraid? funny, i guess the RCC resorting to torturing scientists back then for explaining how the wold works were acts bravery against the onslaught of nerds. Violence is the last bastion of moral cowardice. afterall.
things that shook the religious world: heliocentricism, evolution, vaccines. each of them scared the shit out of the RCC. eventually all were begrudgingly accepted and weaseled into their belief system.
and threatening the church with youtube pfft, childsplay, its all fun and games until a priest rapes a little kid Dick 🙂 and the cat is out of the bag. ask ireland or the majority of europe if they still love the pope.
so what now are you going to throw at me a bible? excommunicate me? ooooh so scared. please a few hundred years ago that was a real threat. now it just generates snickers. so is the church powerful? every threat they make just makes people giggle, how's that for power.
Apparently you didn't get it. Well I seehere we go with the old default lies of “torturing scientists.” Wala na ba kayong original na may katotohanan? I will leave you to your faith for the next 50 years… that statement came from you not me… hahaha, good luck with your faith in that. In 50 years let me know if you've discovered the answer, till then my advice is “don't hold your breath.
by 50 years the church would be a wee little sect. face it Dick. across the world, churches are being sold or converted to museums. Dioceses are going bankrupt. clergy are being jailed, and people openly singing songs during concerts to fuck the motherfucking pope without fear of death or hell, but are even praised for doing so: http://vimeo.com/11338327 imagine the advancement of this in 50 years!
what brought the church to its knees? smarter people who now see through the bullshit. and raping kids was the final straw.
//Well I seehere we go with the old default lies of "torturing scientists." Wala na ba kayong original na may katotohanan?// http://www.pbs.org/empires/medici/renaissance/gal…. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-sciencechristiani…
Any proof they werent threatened, tortured or killed back then?
there are evidence the bible is fiction. please prove its reality.
poor Dick you're in a cult in its death throes, you just dont know it yet. tsk tsk.
//Violence is the last bastion of moral cowardice. afterall.//
I guess Torquemada didn't get the memo.
//My friend the Church is not afraid of something that may never come… The Church has been around to see the greatest civilizations rise and fall.//
What we have here is a classic case of head-in-cement syndrome. Let's look at what the world says:
http://www.religionnewsblog.com/11159/catholic-ch… http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7227629.stm
this proves what that there are fewer and fewer clergy and religious. So what this has always been a trend in the Church. You still have not disproven my statement: 2012 years and going from the Roman Empire to the Fall of European communist-atheism. head in cement syndrome, gosh you never run out of ad hominems and name-calls and vulgarities… maybe I can make this a resolution for 2012.
oh please anything that points to showing you are an immature, pedo-worshipping, anti-scientific, intelligent design supporting, quote-mining, intellecutally dishonest, hypocritical man-child who easily breaks into whiny rants, are not ad-hominems, it is calling a sape-a-spade.
saying you are fat and being a dentist is not being a real doctor are adhominems not that i'm saying you are… cameras add 10lbs and filling up the whole avatar box does give a distinct imagery.
“saying you are a fat and being a dentist is not being a real doctor is are adhominems not that i'm saying you are… cameras add 10lbs. “Oh so now we are getting personal, that shows your lack of character my friend. It easier to get personal when someone hides behind the skirt of anonymity.Tsk tsk tsk, you should be embarrassed with yourself. So this is the quality of FFT membership!
sorry to burst your bubble. fyi i am not part of the FFT. just a random non-atheist non-religious lover of reality passing through.
now he gets offended tsk pikon pala. whatever happened to catholic humility and forgiveness.
so you are not the least bit offended to the first part then, i see…
this needs a trope reference: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ITakeO…
//head in cement syndrome, gosh you never run out of ad hominems and name-calls and vulgarities… maybe I can make this a resolution for 2012.//
Yeah, I know. I have a sick mind. Thank you for the compliment 😀
In a sense I must thank you for that article. It reminds me that the on-going pruning that the Catholic Church is undergoing is for a leaner and more faithful Church. No less than the Pope has said that quality and not necessarily quantity is the objective. Rid the church of wolves in sheep's clothing, unfaithful theologians and predator priests and clergy who are practicing homosexuals. It started in the 60's and is continuing and being replaced by more faithful and more devout men and women. Thank you for reminding me again!
//No less than the Pope has said that quality and not necessarily quantity is the objective.//
oooh citations please. i would have to say then he makes a very poor pope doesn't he? failing to convert people much less convincing them. i'm just glad he is doing much of the work for us.
//No less than the Pope has said that quality and not necessarily quantity is the objective. Rid the church of wolves in sheep's clothing, unfaithful theologians and predator priests and clergy who are practicing homosexuals. //
In medical speak, an excessive obsession with trimming the fat is called anorexia, a mental disease.
How appropriate it is for your church, dboncan, the elitist men's club that is literally going to starve and shit itself into oblivion 😉
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/us/21nuns.html?…
It is apparent that you guys have brought this discussion to a new level of lowness which I refuse to follow into. So when you decide to crawl back up into the light we call civility and intelligence let me know.
//It is apparent that you guys have brought this discussion to a new level of lowness which I refuse to follow into. So when you decide to crawl back up into the light we call civility and intelligence let me know. //
And it's apparent that you're a drama queen who isn't used to being given a double dose of reality.
Let's hear what my buddy has to say about this 🙂 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqolWUgxz7E
Oh snap! A classic!
but i'm still curious if Ratzy really did say something like that. has his situation gotten so desperate now evangelization and salvation for humankind is now a "save who you can! and leave the rest" mentality?
I'm afraid you're overwhelmed by the constant barrage of links and information, that provide proof of the Catholic Church's moral-spiritual incapacity in the 21st century.
Hahaha. Moral incapacity of whom, the Church? My friend the Catholic Church and what she stands for and teaches is apart from the hypocrisy of a small minority of her members. Of course I won't expect you to see yourfallacious generalizationsince you are approaching this guns a-blazing with all your anti-Catholic/religious bias. I am actually underwhelmed by these people. Imagine to resort to personal attacks when they can no longer give good arguments. I think anyone who has been around these kinds of fora can tell that once opponents start becoming personal it is a sign of a weak position. Why would someone who has the upper hand resort to such pedestrian tactics.
Stop right there…"the Catholic Church and what she stands for and teaches is apart from the hypocrisy of a small minority of her members"? Please…if Catholics did follow every single word of the Bible, we'd be in a back-asswards world right now. It's a good thing though, if you weren't hypocrites, you'd be like them Westboro Baptist guys.
"Imagine to resort to personal attacks when they can no longer give good arguments. I think anyone who has been around these kinds of fora can tell that once opponents start becoming personal it is a sign of a weak position"
Yes, your posts a few scrolls up can testify to that.
Here we go again. Willy ou please read my post in context! when I said “small minority” of her members I was talking about the the clergy abuse and was referring to that since that was the topic at hand.
All right, let's suppose you are right. This "small minority" of hypocrites in the Church are abusive clergymen, are we going to ignore them and say, "It's fine, it's just a small minority"? No, we are going to make sure that this "small minority" are put behind bars. But what does your Church do? They hid them instead of letting them face the reality of what they did, which ultimately, makes your Church an institution of hypocrites. You can't expect to weasel your way out of this one
UltimaSora
let me give you some information:
1. It cannot be a minority if the Church's official policy is to cover up such cases. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/53…
2. Technically it is a minority but a very a very damning minorty: bishops are involved, church leaders. is pueblos a just a mere priest? no he is a bishop.
In Europe/US bishops are now being arrested for covering up for raping priests. Canon Laws mean nothing there anymore. http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/world/2011/11… http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/15/us/kansas-city-…
and this screws up their whole minority excuse because…
3. Crimen solicitationis is written by no other than Ratzy himself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_crimes_and_the_V…
you should read up on the catholic responses to shift the blame: https://filipinofreethinkers.org/2011/06/21/blame-… they have blamed hippies, secular society, homosexuals, the media, the devil anyone they can think of except themselves.
they sincerely believe all the news is just some biased and bigoted attack on the church. a massive case of Denialism.
//My friend the Catholic Church and what she stands for and teaches is apart from the hypocrisy of a small minority of her members.//
So no REAL Catholic would ever condone these acts, correct?
Sorry Szell, but the authorities in Holland, the United States, and Ireland find your assertion to be full of shit.
The ongoing investigations in these nations find that the church in their territories have systematically hid offenders, indicating that the problem is the institution itself.
//Of course I won't expect you to see yourfallacious generalizationsince you are approaching this guns a-blazing with all your anti-Catholic/religious bias.//
And of course, I won't expect you to see your fallacious generalizations since you are intentionally ignoring every snippet of evidence we provide.
http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PB09000504
//Imagine to resort to personal attacks when they can no longer give good arguments//
Calling somebody a dishonest, fucking scumbag when he intentionally ignores the facts or tries to weasel his way out of his own shitpile isn't a personal attack, cupcake – it's calling a spade a spade 😉
then shouldn't you intelligently conclude that those who condone it are themselves hypocrites? Tell me how many percent of the priesthood is embroiled in any abuse scandal… less than 2%, that to me is a small minority!
//Tell me how many percent of the priesthood is embroiled in any abuse scandal… less than 2%, that to me is a small minority! //
Citations?
Once again, Holland would love to hear your opinion, given that they've found 800 priests in their country alone to be behind child sex abuse incidents.
http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2011/12/com…
//Tell me how many percent of the priesthood is embroiled in any abuse scandal… less than 2%, that to me is a small minority! //
The main issue isn't the number of priests that committed rape, Szell.
The issue that you fail to see is that the RCC as a whole used its resources to hide the offenders. And contrary to what you try to assert, this practice has been found to be consistent in countries where sex abuse was investigated.
No the original issue was how many. I raised the fact that these wolves in sheep's clothing must be removed and criminally charged. For some reason rather than agreeing to this, you want to add something like greater numbers etc… which led me to say that worldwide it is a small minority of the priesthood involved and now you want to add that the RCC is hiding it? The clergy who are guilty and the bishops who hide them are not representative of the entire RCC clergy. I ahve said the worldwide estimate of percentage is at 2% in the US it's 4% in other countries it's less than 1%. The point is you guys have been making sweeping statements that have no basis. The majority of the abuse were cases that extended from the 60's peaking in the 70's and tapering in the 80's so the abuse we see today are about 15-20 years old. Not to defend abuse by priests and just for the sake of completeness,there is the fact that the abuse scandal in the RCC is not higher than that found in the public school system in the US or the abuse in non-Catholic denominations. The abuse in society in general even in households with parents is even higher.If there is any honesty at all in you guys, you should read independent sources (not biased either way) and read the data before you make assertions.http://www.philvaz.com/apologetics/PriestAbuseScandal.htmhttp://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/04/07/mean-men.html
//The clergy who are guilty and the bishops who hide them are not representative of the entire RCC clergy. I ahve said the worldwide estimate of percentage is at 2% in the US it's 4% in other countries it's less than 1%. //
A small minority that impacts a large portion of the flock they're supposed to protect. Citing Holland's investigations as an example, at least 10,000 incidents of abuse were reported, perpetrated by only 800 offenders.
And once again, you're deflecting the issue.
The problem is that instead of addressing the problem of molesting priest, the RCC is systematically hiding them from the authorities.
There is also the matter of the official church policies fior hiding its sex offenders, which was penned by a "small minority" of priest who just happen to run the Vatican.
The BBC has more of that in their documentary: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/53…
//The clergy who are guilty and the bishops who hide them are not representative of the entire RCC clergy. //
So the solution is simple – get rid of these scumbags before they do any further damage to the church's reputation. How many of them have been defrocked so far?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10407559
//he majority of the abuse were cases that extended from the 60's peaking in the 70's and tapering in the 80's so the abuse we see today are about 15-20 years old. //
Tell that to the Dutch – they're latest findings indicate priest-related that child abuse cases are still happening in present day:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16216174
//Not to defend abuse by priests and just for the sake of completeness,there is the fact that the abuse scandal in the RCC is not higher than that found in the public school system in the US or the abuse in non-Catholic denominations.//
1. That doesn't make it any less wrong.
2. Schools don't spend enormous amounts of resources to transfer sexually abusive teachers to other towns. That's the big difference.
//If there is any honesty at all in you guys, you should read independent sources (not biased either way) and read the data before you make assertions.//
In dboncan-speak: "Your argument is invalid because you're not citing MY apologists! LOLZ"
lol i think i missed the memo, when TIME, CNN and BBC have become biased propaganda-based tabloids.
and catholic apologist websites are now primary sources of information.
Tim Minchin explains it best: http://vimeo.com/11338327
> This is exactly my point.
> With the staggering amount of evidence being presented, any debater is a sitting duck against an opponent whose very weapon is FACT. Sadly, dBoncan can moralize all day, but words become unconvincing when overwhelmed by collective attestation. How do you argue with the BBC, CNN, government officials or the testament of victims that are oceans apart?
> The sting of these crimes can never hurt you maybe because none of your family members or close friends were victimized. Right now, I'm beginning to think that this
CONSPIRACY OF SILENCE
> serves a dual purpose: one, to make a dumb believer out of us, and two, to terrorize us by disrespecting the rule of law. Where are Cabonce, de Dios Pueblos andthe rest of the Mitsubishops now? No trial. At all. And these fugitives are still roaming the streets.
You must a devout Catholic, I assume.
I don't speak for the entire Filipino Freethinkers, but I would like to believe that this website was not intended to break the ranks of your Roman Catholic Church. However, the links provided by them is enough to make every Filipino think twice of submitting themselves to a religion who hides its "rapist" employees from the law or keeps billions in its bank accounts. This action is an anathema to the very values promoted by the Church herself.
You have been delighting us with your theological take on things, but so far, you have been overwhelmingly defeated not by the freethinkers themselves, but by the STAGGERING AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE to support their cause. A ton of Bibles can never provide a practical solution to this moral corruption. Now don't tell me that these molesters are but a minority within the Roman Catholic Church, because not until one of your family members or a close friend becomes a victim, these molesters CEASE TO BECOME A MINORITY.
“This action is an anathema to the very values promoted by the Church herself. “This is true it is correct! And I have accepted this readily and I am in full agreement. I have never denied this and still after saying “yes I agree these molesters as well as those who coddled them should be removed and thrown in jail” still the unhampered harking on the issue. Then once I agree, what happens it's now the billions and billions which I also addressed objectively. After this, people start getting personal calling me names and even making fun of my profession. Is that how this is? Is that how reasonable people argue and debate? That is being”Overwhelmingly defeated” getting personal and attacking me when they can no longer answer me? Evidence, more like fabrications. At any rate the fact that 90% of the articles are anti-Catholic and you believe that “…it is not intended….” shows how dishonest you are. It's funny but given what you say “Amount of Evidence” none of the anti-CAtholics FT have in any way managed to address my assertion that they have fabricated and lied about the Catholic Church and her teachings in many of their articles. It's all empty dishonest rhetoric! Can't someone in this group stand up, be a real man/woman and reason decently?Good day.
"After this, people start getting personal calling me names and even making fun of my profession. Is that how this is? Is that how reasonable people argue and debate? ….."
> I am not as intense as some of the commenters on this website, however, if you can only put your neurons where your fingertips are, stop defending the Roman Catholic Church. The only thing that keeps me going through your theological circus is the hope that you might provide a link that shows any one of the following:
1. the RCC's ammendments towards its outdated principles
2. legal actions taken against priests who are accused of sexual abuse, especially on minors
3. reforms and remedies within its ranks
4. resolutions to allegations of corruption and bribery
5. or simply the Catholic Church's position on today's pressing issues such as human trafficking, AIDS, child labor, the list goes on.
> Readers will be delighted to see how you counter all the links provided by the freethinkers, and until you can produce credible sources worthy of comparison, I'm afraid your defense only stops at lip service.
The problem with providing links to counter links is that either they attack the source of those links without refuting the data or in the case of the clergy abuse when I readily admit to the failings of the church And agree that justice has to be served I am personally attacked. So I won't address this in this forum but in mine. You can comment there or stay in the comfort of your own home.Sent from my iPhone
The problem with not providing links to counter links is that the readers have no baseline data to make a sound judgment out of the argument.
The best way is to argue against the data in the links themselves not to provide counter links because that would make it a he-said, she-said type of argument especially if the links provided are not the source of the article being used as reference in the first place. There is also the problem of the use of foul language and personal attacks on top of all of that. So as I said it is counter productive to do it this way in this forum because many of the participants are just boorish.
//The best way is to argue against the data in the links themselves not to provide counter links because that would make it a he-said, she-said type of argument especially if the links provided are not the source of the article being used as reference in the first place.//
This from the man who honestly, sincerely thinks that groups like NARTH, HLI, and FRC are legitimate and intellectually honest think tanks.
Szell, when you post a link to a source that has a longstanding history of lying, and distorting the very data it represents, nobody is obligated to take it seriously.
//There is also the problem of the use of foul language and personal attacks on top of all of that. //
You lie, we call you out for being a fucking liar. If you try to justify gay discrimination, we call you a fucking bigot.
If you pretend that the endless stream of links we've presented you refuting your points don't exist, we call you a fucking moron.
It's as simple as that. A thief is a thief, as the old adage goes.
//So as I said it is counter productive to do it this way in this forum because many of the participants are just boorish.//
In layman's terms: dickie here is pissed because none of the sources he cites are credible, and that we don't hesitate to call him out when he bullshits.
Exactly what I said, attacking the source and not the data, foul-mouthed personal tirades and name-calling… so much for the FFT'ers being “reasonable” and scientific. It's a mask for whatever chip you have on your shoulder. When people like you, Twinskies, cannot behave decently, it shows a certain weakness of character… maybe you can ask a psychologist for help. Perhaps it is the arrogance of youth, maybe it's your social status that you think keeps you above the rest and gives you the right to talk that way, whatever it is, I hope that someday you can properly engage in decent and useful conversation. There are people within your group who are decent and have had fruitful exchanges with me so I think the evidence speaks against you. Good day to you!
right because calling out the hypocrisy, the sex abuse scandals and bigotry are unwarranted, hateful, biased and adhominem attacks on the moral, just, unerring and all-good Church.
keep your delusions. we'll happily make a point to the contrary any day.
again exactly what I said… Pitiful.Sent from my iPhone
//Pitiful//
and this is from someone who has failed to present and defend any argument so far. and blows up into whiny rants if its made evident when his flaws are pointed out.
poor logic, poor apologetics, poor grasp of reality, poor maturity, poor intellectual honesty and a standard fare for persecution complex.
Get a life fellows!
I believe that was his way of saying "I concede". Thanks for playing
then why keep fighting a losing battle then?
You should be asking yourself that :DAny evidence regarding homosexual marriage or the Church's work for the poor have been pointed out. The so-called refutations I get are all cursing or the like or worse attacking the messenger not the data… that's really juvenile debating. The issues of clergy abuse are all over the news and one only has to search for what is being done and I don't need to expound on it anymore. So as far as I am concerned you folks are the ones who are at the short end of the stick because you obviously have not been able to let go of it.I had been quiet for a few weeks, you guys are the ones who can't seem to have any peace of mind. I will pray for you guys.
actually, you've been refuted numerous times. twin_skies would attest to that. it is you who enter whiny rants when you run out of arguments.
since you love coming back here all the time just to play the persecution complex. there is a term for that: masochist.
this also needs a jesus and mo' reference http://www.jesusandmo.net/2011/12/14/beat2/
we appreciate the prayer… if it worked so we'll pray for you too its just as effective. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/health/31pray.h…
finally, the only reason i come back here is to have fun with you dick. you should have noticed that by now. 😉
Ah yes, the arrogance of youth maybe. But also, I think that they speak with audacity because they are armed with evidence, hence, they fear nothing. Or no one.
Not maybe for sure! When someone has the strength of truth and evidence, one does not have to be arrogant or audacious. Arrogance is a sign of lack of fortitude. Time and time again, we see this and the best evidence of this are the lives of saints!
//Exactly what I said, attacking the source and not the data, foul-mouthed personal tirades and name-calling… so much for the FFT'ers being "reasonable" and scientific. //
Basically, when you're caught for being a fucking liar, you cry foul over our use of harsh language instead of answering the charges.
I thought "though shalt not bear false witness" was one of the doctrines your cult practices, dickie 😉
This is what I mean ladies and gentlemen of the highly esteemed group FFT. this forum has sank to this kind of low level name-calling and acerbic/foul-mouthed language as exemplified by your cohort. it seems that anyone who disagrees with your opinion is treated this way and is called a bigot. Sometime you should try and expand your vocabulary, it's tiring to hear that already.
As you can also see, ladies and gentlemen, when one runs out of talking points to say and is unable to disprove the amount of facts that attest to the hypocrisy of his faith, he curls into a little ball, retorting with empty, pathetic whines.
What I hate most is people like you who go around whining when he loses an argument. You failed defending your faith, get over it.
//When people like you, Twinskies, cannot behave decently, it shows a certain weakness of character… maybe you can ask a psychologist for help.//
Insinuating that your opponent has psychological issues, instead of trying to address his counterpoints hints at a cowardly mindset, Szell.
Counter points ba ang mga “Fuck you” and “bigoted asshole” hehehe are you sure you came from ADMU? hihihihi
riiiiight…what happened to defending the Catholic Church? You can't think of any points to defend your faith anymore?
So mature….
I will answer it in my own venue and since it appears you didn't read that reply of mine I will acknowledge your comment just to satisfy your need for attention.Sent from my iPhone
//Perhaps it is the arrogance of youth, maybe it's your social status that you think keeps you above the rest and gives you the right to talk that way, whatever it is, I hope that someday you can properly engage in decent and useful conversation.//
Contrary to what you may assume, I can actually carry a respectful conversation with most people if I wanted to.
There's a reason I got along well with my SJ proffs at admu, even if we don't agree on matters of religion or philosophy.
Unlike you, however, I don't confuse ass-kissing and passive-aggressive bitching with genuine respect and courtesy.
My friend, you have nothing else to say that will change my impression of you so stop trying to justify your weak character to me and to everyone.
//here are people within your group who are decent and have had fruitful exchanges with me so I think the evidence speaks against you.//
The difference between us, dickie, is that I converse with these people whenever you're not around – I friended them on FB after all.
And guess what? While they are polite and civil when they confront you, just like me, they all think you're a disingenuous, bigoted asshole.
They're just too nice to say it to your face.
How low can you go…. The Jesuits you have met are either too nice or have no spine to stand up for the truth, either way if you're a product of the Ateneo, God have mercy on them!
//The problem with providing links to counter links is that either they attack the source of those links without refuting the data or in the case of the clergy abuse when I readily admit to the failings of the church //
And yet you defend its infallibility on matters of moral teachings, when it's become bleeding obvious that not only are its morals woefully out of touch with reality and bigoted, but that it can't even follow its more sensible practices.
Sent from my 3DS
Your attempt to shield yourself with the use of fallacy and patay-mali attitude towards all these data, is a reflection of your hypocrisy, the very quality you share with your beloved church.
//Rid the church of wolves in sheep's clothing, unfaithful theologians and predator priests and clergy who are practicing homosexuals. It started in the 60's and is continuing and being replaced by more faithful and more devout men and women.//
hey dick this is your CBCP, right here right now, not in the 60s http://www.ivowtofightvaw.com/cbcp-makes-a-confes…
don't you just find clergy raping teens and weaseling out responsibility just sooo loving, merciful and everything in His name.
I don't know if it's your capacity to understand or it's your impulsiveness but I said good for them. Besides, because of your dishonesty, the news from the PDI does state that the CBCP said that since the case has been filed with the RTC as a criminal act, then they cannot intervene…. eto basahin mo tinatagalog ko na para maintindihan mo: <a href="http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/64339/priest’s-rape-victim-seeks-assistance-of-cbcphttp://newsinfo.inquirer.net/64339/priest’s-rap… />do you understand what jurisdiction means and what criminal liability is?until you can argue about the original topic in an intelligent manner I suggest you stop your comments, it's starting to make you look like a fool!
oh really? so are you saying that only the vatican and ONLY the vatican can try rapists in the clergy? or we can confirm that the CBCP is a toothless authority over the erring bishops.
so now they follow the law first before doing what is right considering these are people willing to be thrown in jail and incite civil disobedience, and consistently break separation of church and state to do what they feel is right. … completely follows the law when it comes to helping a rape victim of a priest. wow how hypocritical. catholic love and morality indeed.
if you did your proper research, which you barely do anyway, bishop dios pueblos hid the priest from local authorities. and cruz confirmed there is nothing they can do because it is as you say beyond their jurisdiction. http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/48857/bishop-confirm… http://bulatlat.com/main/2011/08/30/gabriela-call…
that is also the same dios pueblos, who requested an SUV from GMA from the funds taken from the pcso.
keep digging yourself deeper dick. you do such a good job protecting the integrity of the catholic faith. or whatever is left of it.
//until you can argue about the original topic in an intelligent manner I suggest you stop your comments, it's starting to make you look like a fool//
you were the one that brought up that the sex abuse scandals were in the past and are slowly being replace with proper clergy. just showing you that even now the clergy is willing to sink pathetically low. so dont bring topics up that will get your head smashed into the wall. hypothetically speaking
while your at it refute all of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_sex_abuse_c…
salita ka ng salita eh di mo pala alam kung ano ang role ng CBCP. in the first place, there is presumption of innocence, you presume guilt. notice it is Gabriela asking him to surrender and not the courts. are you just plain mahina. why will anyone surrender himself to someone without police powers. if the rape allegation is indeed substantiated, as what the Bishop is trying to find out, then they will bring it to the legal authorities. has there been anything in the report saying that the police is looking for the priest and that Bishop de dios is harboring a suspect… eh di pa nga suspect sinesentensyahan mo na… kapal mo na naman pre. last bit in the news is that a case has been filed with the [police eh di ibang usapan na iyan. DId Bishop pueblo prevent any arrests?
// DId Bishop pueblo prevent any arrests?//
duh by hiding the priest from facing his accusers. if they had any balls, morality and respect for the law and the people, specifically the victim. they should convince cabonce to face his accusers, not hide him like a sissy.
i find it cute that you always lose your composure when your flaws and sins of your beloved church is laid to bear. if you were a good catholic you would condemns pueblos' actions. like cruz did. at least i can respect him for that, but then again its not enough.
but you are so insistent on moral superiority when none of it exists anymore.
keep yapping dick about the beauty and righteousness of the church. it doesnt need us to bury it. they do it themselves. all we do is point it out.
arrest by whom Gabriela? hahahahaha do the y have police powers? You really don't read your posts. hahaha
who said arrested by a bunch of women? learn2read. FACE them. talk and take it to court. you, yourself, did say it was filed with the RTC. in the very article you linked: http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/64339/priest��%9… but they do it the coward's way: hide until the whole thing blows over.
tsk tsk. trying to weasel out of an argument again! FTL i guess you didnt read the articles nor your own posts to the fullest.
what can expect from a cut and paster who barely even understands the articles or books he claims he reads.
we can therefore conclude your lack of reading skills and lack of knowledge regarding science and current events. hahaha
Getting personal again are we. In any forum there is always your kind. Good luck in your unbelief but i will still pray for you none the less! God Bless
why thank you. if prayer actually worked or even worth a damn. but i appreciate the gesture.
everything is so personal with you isnt it dick? it like watching a cute little chubby rat trapped in a corner. i really do enjoy how every argument you post blows up in your face spectacularly. and how you try to squirm out of the holes you dig yourself into.
//Getting personal again are we. In any forum there is always your kind.// on the above thread please indicate the line that is a personal attack, thank you.
church sex abuse is hardly personal, it's global current events.
// Basti2682: …"i find it cute that you always lose your composure when your flaws and sins of your beloved church is laid to bear. "//
– Good point. I once read somewhere in this website that the education system of the Philippines is somewhat stained by the Roman Catholic Church, as omissions were intentionally made from our textbooks. Catholic schools have the dumbest historians, or better yet, Catholic priests do what they do best: BRAINWASHING. Indeed, I had to learn these from other sources:
1. indulgencia plenaria
2. medieval torture devices
3. malleus maleficarum
4, galileo's house arrest
5. Hitler's pope (Pius XII)
6. Crimen sollicitationis
7. Istituto per le Opere di Religione
8. Rev. Fucker Cabonce
9. Mitsubishop de Dios Pueblos
10. http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/abbott/080730
11. popes are neither infallible nor the pinnacle of morality, just mere humans who can screw up big time http://www.time.com/time/specials/bestworst/0,322… people were burnt at the stake for believing that.
12. the crusades: from the honorable idea of liberating jerusalem, to an excuse to declare war, expand and pillage <a href="http://.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade” target=”_blank”>.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albigensian_Crusade
13. The Bible, bible, bible…
14. Magdelene Laundries
and the list goes on…
//Catholic schools have the dumbest historians,//
and even dumber scientists and researchers. they released a study that condoms offer ZERO protection against AIDS as their studies show condom pores and played up the news that it can cause cancer. http://www.hli.org/index.php/condoms/320?task=vie… http://www.chastity.com/chastity-qa/birth-control…
//or better yet, Catholic priests do what they do best: BRAINWASHING. Indeed, I had to learn these from other sources: //
Actually they are not brainwashing. The apt term is INDOCTRINATION. young filipinos, from a young age, are taught CLE through all three levels of schooling, that jebus, the church and the clergy are all good, moral and unerring. N. Korea practices the same thing, just replace Jebus and his miracles, with Kim Jong Il with inhuman academic and athletic achievements. let that go into your head for decades and voila, they can be complete dicks and people will love em for it. sadly, for religions, people are getting smarter.
Brainwashing comes in when a follower starts to think and question the actions and history of the church, thats what we call "spinning the story":
CBCP: "It's not a bribe, It's a donation, our conscience is clear!"
most non-theists are angry for this reason, we all used to be catholics , and when woken up to reality man, i myself got pissed and sad. though i'm better now. now, i'd rather make fun and point out the flaws, and show the world the craziness… not that hard to do, they do most of the work.
//and even dumber scientists and researchers. they released a study that condoms offer ZERO protection against AIDS as their studies show condom pores and played up the news that it can cause cancer. //
Depends, actually. Fr. John Caroll of Ateneo is a vocal supporter of an RH program for our women, and has been very vocal in disagreeing with the CBCP's bishops whenever they say something stupid regarding the issue.
Jesuits are generally awesome that way.
Go Ateneo! and dont forget Fr. Bernas. people like them are the reason why i like the jesuits.
Remember how the religious right demanded proRH atenean teachers and clergy to resign? jack shit happened.
and Isn't Dick from Ateneo? OH SNAP!
Its like being a devote catholic apologist and an strong supporter of Intelligent Design at the same time!
– It's a pity that whenever the most devout (clueless) Catholics are confronted by these horrors, they recline to statements such as: "It's the faith, not the religion…"
I beg to disagree however, because no rational person will subscribe to a religion that harbors hypocrites and impedes scientific development.
//I beg to disagree however, because no rational person will subscribe to a religion that harbors hypocrites and impedes scientific development.//
if you can reason with religious people, there would be no religious people. very few exceptions exist.
You really can't control your emotions and have to always get personal. I didn't even grant you the privilege of calling me by my nickname but you continue to do so. it really shows weakness of character to have to get personal in an exchange online. From: Ricardo B. Boncan <[email protected]> To: IntenseDebate Notifications <notifications+KeyKf40bb08u0Cf-3Evc3a14d6SUnr@intensedebatemail.com> Sent: Thursday, January 5, 2012 9:34 PM Subject: Re: Basti2682 replied to your comment on What Would a True Catholic Philippines Look Like?salita ka ng salita eh di mo pala alam kung ano ang role ng CBCP. in the first place, there is presumption of innocence, you presume guilt. notice it is Gabriela asking him to surrender and not the courts. are you just plain mahina. why will anyone surrender himself to someone without police powers. if the rape allegation is indeed substantiated, as what the Bishop is trying to find out, then they will bring it to the legal authorities. has there been anything in the report saying that the police is looking for the priest and that Bishop de dios is harboring a suspect… eh di pa nga suspect sinesentensyahan mo na… kapal mo na naman pre. last bit in the news is that a case has been filed with the [police eh di ibang usapan na iyan. DId Bishop pueblo prevent any arrests?
and this is a guy who easily crashes and burns at almost every single argument he puts out. and goes on a rant fest when reality hits him. retreats back to his blog and whines about the evil non-believers personally attacking him, when it's all just current events.
face it Dick youre a source of comedy here, you just fail to realize it.
aww chillax dude…be a good sport, you just failed to defend the integrity of your Catholic faith and now you whine? Suck it up like a man…
Defensive much? Somebody's blood pressure just skyrocketed.
False premise. Assuming that Szell's blood pressure spiked would imply that he has a heart.
Hahahaha!
100 points for the House of Sarcasm.
good links you got here…. WOW! ur amazing!
These links are not only educational, but liberating as well. It's good to know that Europeans are slowly shifting their lives away from Catholic rituals and orthodoxy, and are now moving towards secularism. Even teenagers had the audacity to question the very nature of their faith, at a tender age of 15.
Jesus Christ when will the Philippines follow suit?
roman catholicism is more than a paganized version of christianity or christianized paganism. it is more than a highly organized global community of believers in ancient myths and superstitions. it is an ideology that is more akin to fascism and has been proven to be so and still acting to be so (albeit in more sedate manner).
Wow, I didn't know there was a saint's feast for each day of the year (Yes, I checked the whole calendar).
I have to disagree with the number of branches though, I believe there would be a single branch, headed by (most probably) the Archbishop of Manila.
I wonder what they would do non-believers. I hope they would give them a one-way ticket to some god-forsaken land; maybe the US, Japan. They are being "punished" for their godlessness after all.
Woe to you lower mortal hooman beings with ungodly genitals! >=)))
Red's post in three words:
Live in Iran XD