While we write a lot about the shitty things the Catholic hierarchy tries to impose on people because of their particular interpretation of God, that’s not to say that other sects of Christianity are not busy trying to get humans to be horrible to each other because bible bible bible bible.
Take this example of a campus minister associated with Victory Christian Fellowship, Joppet Tan, who posted this casually sexist idea on his Facebook account in response to seeing an advertisement on a train.
#hashtags make you #cool
Joppet Tan thinks that because God God bible bible God bible God, women should be powerless when it comes to initiating relationships going so far as to admonish women with, “God designed you to be pursued”.
This kind of thinking, that women are “different” (lesser) from men when it comes to relationships is a prevalent one in this strain of Christianity. These are the ideas that this minister is trying to get his flock to accept.
This is the fucking backwards ass “get-back-in-the-kitchen-woman” kind of idea that needs to be fought vigorously to put all genders on an equal footing. And yet here in 2013 we have a pastor trying to wrap this monumentally shitty idea, that women are lesser than men, in a religious veneer to try to get people to accept it.
Joppet Tan, it says something horrible about your God when you say that He explicitly made women to be objects of pursuit for men while denying women the right to do the same to men.
It reveals something vile about your views of women when you think that their pursuit of men would mean they’d be stuck chasing men for the rest of their life. Or it shows how little you think of men that you think they can’t accept being pursued by a woman.
And if you’re so blinded by faith that you’re even unable to accept a different gender role for women in a heterosexual relationship, I can’t even imagine you would consider the idea of women pursuing other women.
Joppet Tan’s Facebook post has quite rightly received a backlash for pushing this idea, but did he learn anything from all of the replies he received?
Nope. Of course he’s a martyr. So the lesson here folks is that if you want to justify your shitty behaviour WHILE protecting it from criticism, use the bible bible God God bible God.
“God designed you to be pursued and not the other way around.”
What a bizarre statement! Supposing for a moment that there is/was some supreme entity, or “God”, how would Mr. Tan know that that entity “designed women to be pursued”? Does he engage in two-way discussions with this God? Did this God write a book or in some similar fashion share it’s views on the roles of women in society? Maybe, I just slept through the press conference God held where he/she/it informed everyone of their roles in society.
I’ve worked with women welders, electricians, joiners, etc., in the shipyards in Canada and would have to say that they were as good as their male counterparts, sometimes better, at applying their skills. As a man who is somewhat introverted when it comes to pursuing women, I like the idea of women not being afraid to take the initiative. Should a woman be concerned with how she will be viewed by others? Of course not! Change for the better is not always comfortable and it takes time to change society’s way of addressing some things, but, it won’t happen if individuals within that society don’t push for change.
before you guys throw the real issue, it all boils down to this:
what's wrong with a girl asking her man out? huh?
you are meant to be this…you are designed to be that…or this will happen…or that will hurt you later?
where's the research basis of this? if there's none, then it's just another generalization taken by those who can with impunity regardless of study. by definition, that's faith. it makes the stupid out of a person.
Hey Hasa!
Do you have a basis and research about your comment?
If you don’t have, Then your comment is base on faith as well, “that makes a stupid out of a person”. Everything we say here are all generalizations at some level.
We are just having intelligent discussion base on our core values and beliefs.
Girl asking a man out is not the issue here. But do we really want a culture where women are encouraged to ask a guy out? If the answer is yes, then we should be teaching our women not just how to ask but to woo, court and propose for marriage. Teach them how pick the right gifts and plan a nice date. Why only empower them to ask and not empower them to do it all the way? I’M JUST BEING SARCASTIC. Encouraging women to ask a guy out is not empowering. Empowered women are women who knows their roles, place and limitation. And not trying to be in equal footing with the opposite sex in terms of their actions and role. 🙂
Pray tell good sir,
Under whose authority are you to think you can dictate what a woman's place and role in society should be?
[ And not trying to be in equal footing with the opposite sex in terms of their actions and role. ]
Separate but equal, basically. they said the same thing to the blacks when they fought for desegregation.
Marcus, the 1800's called and they want you back!
Nice!
In all seriousness, though, how does on argue with someone who says "empowered women are women who knows their roles, place and limitation"?
It's like arguing with someone who claims the world is flat. By taking them seriously, you give their silly position credibility it doesn't deserve.
Marcus' antiquated and misogynistic view is dying and rightfully so. Good riddance…
I would agree with that quote if it was followed by "and in today's world, there are no limits."
wow…such nerve. if marie curie believed the same ideal such as yours – same with the rest of all women who stood up against the norm of gender roles in their time – we would probably have our mothers and sisters still knitting and babysitting, unable to vote nor educate themselves in the hopes of EMPOWERING their role in the society. that word was popularized from that very essence. did I base that in some faith? sure. but that's faith on historical facts.
reminding anyone of their limitations and place in the society is not my idea of empowering. even your usage of the word reflects pastoral origin so it is not surprisingly misogynistic ("the most empowered person of faith is also the most passive in the way of the Lord." as how they say it).
i can still add some more on how sexy and worth persuading a woman with "say" is. but if a passive wife is your thing, nodding her head every time, can't argue with how boring her date is, good luck in keeping her "empowered" as how you defined it.
//Everything we say here are all generalizations at some level.//
true and fair enough.
//We are just having intelligent discussion base on our core values and beliefs.//
no. that's just you who's speaking.
to generalize based on personal belief and value renders no further step for the quest of conclusive truths. to think we're on the same boat is like merging historical arguments with myths and epics. pls don't.
Our core values and beliefs were develop when we encounter “conclusive truth” at some point in our life. But this is not to say, our beliefs and values will not change because as we quest for the “conclusive truth” our values and belief system will be more solidify or change. So in short, we all share our opinion base on the “conclusive truth” that form our values. 🙂 nice try! 🙂
I will not argue anymore with women being empowered. Obviously we have different “conclusive truth” that shaped our core values and belief system. 🙂
@Marcus
[. Obviously we have different “conclusive truth” that shaped our core values and belief system.]
Oh lovely. The classic “Let’s agree to disagree” copout.
Sorry mate, but I refuse to play your game.
You claim not to “object” to women, but is not the exact opposite obvious when you make statements like this:
[Empowered women are women who knows their roles, place and limitation. And not trying to be in equal footing with the opposite sex in terms of their actions and role.
Empowered but not equal. “Separate but equal.”
You may not realize it, but your assertion is the sort of misogynistic bullshit we often hear from apologists when they try to justify discrimination – people who claim that women shouldn’t be getting into this or that career because it’s one that’s “reserved” for men, as if having a penis automatically makes them better at that job.
"Joppet Tan thinks that because God God bible bible God bible God, women should be POWERLESS when it comes to initiating relationships. . ." – that Joppet dude didn't mention anything about power dude, you're over reacting and adding some ingredients to his idea.
"This is the fucking backwards ass “get-back-in-the-kitchen-woman” kind of idea that needs to be fought vigorously to put all genders on an equal footing." – there's no INEQUALITY with the ORDER of a woman being in a kitchen while the man is in his workplace or the gym or what. The woman could go there anyways, it depends on the agreement between the woman and man themselves. Don't get yourself in the picture.
"Or it shows how little you think of men that you think they CAN'T accept being pursued by a woman. . ." – he didn't mention anything about this either. And the issue is not if men can or can't or the other way around. Well in reality, they CAN, to fulfill their unending ego's. Just to ride with you. lol.
..there will never be total equality between the two gender.
1.in some work environment (mine sites, exploration trips, off-shore locations, any factory/oil rig/facility in saudi arabia etc) there will ALWAYS be preference to hire men over women, even if the latter is more qualified. women require more "needs" and "security", so it's more convenient for employers to hire men (like: separate functioning toilets/baths, separate/secured rooms, etc)
2. men can sleep around all they want like animals cause we honestly don't care. we're actually proud of it. women can do the same, but there's always this social stigma (ergo a lot of terms were coined: bitch, slut, cunt, whore, etc)
3. women cannot SCREAM for gender equality and push for special treatment at the same time. Take the MRT for example, the front "cars" are reserved for women, which by the way is a lot more action-packed as my friends tell me; women's desk on every police station; senator stupid's passing a new act called "E-VAW" which penalizes bullying against women; new sexual harassment policy that protects women alone (1) a female employee can file a complaint if a guy employee says: "ang bango bango mo naman" i mean wtf? then stop wearing your perfume (2) guys in the office are also harassed as well, by their gay bosses or by their fat, ugly co-workers, where's our protection huh?
4. and lastly men do not have monthly period and give birth which makes women different and special. these natural "processes" require special attention like specialized doctors, elementary or highscool assembly for girls, vaginal cleansers, etc..
SO PLEASE, i agree with Marcus, there SHOULD be an inequality in some areas. Areas that makes a man and a woman different in a special way. But for other fields (ESPECIALLY THE LOVE DEPARTMENT), yeah it's all neutral ground!
Gender equality does not mean being in the same footing with the opposite sex but rather being uniquely who you are. Gender equality may advocate equal roles and participation but not necessarily doing everything the opposite sex are doing. Distinction of values and roles is important, so they can express their own uniqueness. And top it all. Honestly, gender equality is overrated, it’s because at some point you have to accept the fact that Men and Women are different. Different doesn’t mean the other one is the “lesser” gender. And to label “lesser” is a sexist in its own admission. Different Is different but not “lesser”.
Different means Man has a penis, while woman has a vagina. 🙂
It’s not a matter of equality. It’s a matter of how you’re designed to be.
In simple words, porkit pantay na babae at lalaki mabubuntis na din lalaki? Baka pwede? =)))
I don't get what you're trying to say.
What does that have to do with anything?
Different, okay, but that doesn’t mean that a woman should stand down instead of pursuing what she wants.
Your comment is honestly very sexist as well as transphobic (I’m doing all I can not to talk about the latter btw). Gender equality IS being in the same footing with the opposite sex, that is, being given the right to be whatever you want to be without being judged based on the gender you happen to be born with.
We are different, yes, but all human beings are different. Individuals have overlapping characteristics, and there are multitudes of women who have “masculine” characteristics and vice versa, and it’s just wrong to say that males are different from females because of so and so personality traits.
Also about your saying that gender equality is overrated…
How tall are you, Mr Marcus?
Because that’s the height of ignorance, sir.
Men in general are given higher-paying jobs over women who could do the same work as them (or even better) because of male privilege; Women are blamed for the rape that MEN cause; Women’s achievements throughout history (discoveries in science and art, heroics in battle, etc.) are forgotten, deliberately erased, even attributed to an undeserving man just because women are supposed to be “stupid” and because their only use is apparently to continue the survival of MANkind.
Also, your comment in general is quite vague Mr Marcus. Cite some examples, will you?
And next time you decide to comment on a topic, make sure you actually know something about it?
Thank you.
Hey Ana!
1.Nobody is taking away your right to “be” whatever you want to be, but you can’t take away the fact that we will always be judge regardless what is it we wan tot “be”.
If you don’t want to be judge. Hide from the society. People will always have an opinion whatever is it you want do with your life. Good or bad. Just like you have an opinion to my comment. 🙂 It’s a free world after all. 🙂
2. Thank you for admitting we are different
3. I am tall enough to say, gender equality is different from empowering women.
And also From what I understand labeling women “stupid” is sexist even by mere citing it as an example. Generalization about “women’ erasing their place in history” is very uninfom. If Margaret Thatcher, Mother Teresa and Queen Elizabeth will read your comment, I think they will be very sad. 🙁
4. My comment is only vague for people who can’t differentiate gender equality and unique design difference. Unless you want women to have penis and vice versa.
5. If I don’t know anything you should never paid attention to my comment. Because in in the first place “intelligent people like you” should never bother to respond to my uniform, vague comement. 🙂
Thank you 🙂
[And also From what I understand labeling women "stupid" is sexist even by mere citing it as an example. Generalization about "women' erasing their place in history" is very uninfom. If Margaret Thatcher, Mother Teresa and Queen Elizabeth will read your comment, I think they will be very sad. ]
How exactly does cherry-picking a handful of famous people eliminate the reality that women generally earn less than men when given the same job position?
Unlike you btw, I'm not blowing smoke out of my ass. I'm basing my opinion on actual studies., http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21698522
[If you don't want to be judge. Hide from the society. People will always have an opinion whatever is it you want do with your life. Good or bad. Just like you have an opinion to my comment. It's a free world after all. ]
There's the alternate that I enjoy far more than "hiding": Telling patronizing, clueless sexists to go fuck themselves.
🙂
🙁
^_^
hey marcus!
two of your examples assumed a role exclusively for men. isn't that trespassing for you?
Hey Hasa!
Good try! Who told you that two of my example assumed an “exclusive for men” role. That’s a very sexist comment. 🙂 All roles are up for grab, even the third one. :). But good try! 🙂