In a recent interview, Ex-CBCP President Oscar Cruz said that Noynoy deserved to be excommunicated if he was proven to have an indirect hand in abortions due to the passage of the RH Bill (emphasis mine):
There are 2 ways for someone to be excommunicated. Abortion or harming the pope. But just in case the President signs the bill into law…he will not be excommunicated. Unless, if the church proves that he has an indirect hand on abortions, meaning because of his approval of the bill and abortions happen, then he becomes guilty,” Cruz warned.
According to Oscar, indirectly causing an abortion is grounds for excommunication. According to this logic, if the passage of the RH Bill causes a single person to have an abortion, then all those involved in passing the RH Bill are equally deserving of excommunication.
If the RH Bill passes, popular support will be one of the main reasons. According to a 2008 SWS survey, 7 out of 10 Catholics favor the passage of the RH Bill. Should pro-RH Catholics be excommunicated as well?
Whatever the CBCP decides, excommunication is their call — the Vatican’s, to be more precise. But consider this: If indirectly causing an abortion is grounds for excommunication, then the CBCP should excommunicate themselves first.
Here are the facts. Studies from all over the world show that increased contraception use reduces the number of induced abortions1:
Recent studies offer strong evidence of a widely supposed but difficult-to-demonstrate benefit of reproductive health services: that increasing the use of effective contraception leads to declines in induced abortion rates.
In 2008, there were an estimated 560,000 induced abortions. If CBCP hadn’t been blocking the passage of an RH Bill for 13 years prior, this number would probably be a lot smaller. Stated more plainly, the CBCP is indirectly responsible for every abortion in the Philippines that could have been avoided through the information and contraception that a family planning program could have provided.
So before Oscar and the CBCP goes excommunication-happy on pro-RH Catholics, they should study the facts and check whether they still have the authority to excommunicate. They might have been auto-excommunicated a long time ago.
***
1 In cases where increased contraception use fails to reduce abortion incidence, here’s the story:
In seven countries—Kazakhstan, Kyrgyz Republic, Uzbekistan, Bulgaria, Turkey, Tunisia and Switzerland—abortion incidence declined as prevalence of modern contraceptive use rose. In six others—Cuba, Denmark, Netherlands, the United States, Singapore and the Republic of Korea—levels of abortion and contraceptive use rose simultaneously. In all six of these countries, however, overall levels of fertility were falling during the period studied. After fertility levels stabilized in several of the countries that had shown simultaneous rises in contraception and abortion, contraceptive use continued to increase and abortion rates fell. The most clear-cut example of this trend is the Republic of Korea…
Rising contraceptive use results in reduced abortion incidence in settings where fertility itself is constant. The parallel rise in abortion and contraception in some countries occurred because increased contraceptive use alone was unable to meet the growing need for fertility regulation in situations where fertility was falling rapidly.
I know that is not the main topic, but abortion is not a bigger crime than killing insects or wanking…
And I am vegetarian, so ME, I save life everyday just not eating animals.
The real question is : when life begins ? Which size (because our sperm is also alive in this case) ? Reacting just emotionnally is a proof of idioty.
When people here could decide together "lifes starts at this size, equivalent of xx number of pregnancy days", they could allow abortion.
You can not escape this question : At which size, life begins.
When this point would be solved :
– it would allow a lot of poor young women to not abandon their kids in the street (and that RCC do NOT take care, it is their last problem).
– it would allow a lot of young poor women to not stop their studies and destroy their life. Their babies would have a better education.
And the worst problem would be solved :
– Women who got raped would not be forced to keep their hell baby.
So NO, abortion is not a problem, the only question to solve is to determine together when life begins.
And Church DO NOT HAVE TO bother political life. Politics and Religions are supposed to be separated… Immorals are parties such as Lakas Kampi CMD who collaborate with religions as well as brothers.
When they say "life" what they actually mean is NOT biological life, but Christian Life (the one with a magic, holy soul). If we were to speak of life, in general, as in biological life, it begins with the sperm cell. The sperm cell is alive, but it's not big deal to wank into a clump of tissue. Neither is it a big deal to abort an embryo. Both are alive, but neither have consciousness or personhood.
but I don't think God would allow people to suffer in poverty cause by over population. the people its old enough to decide. the church will just say to the people what should be done and not should be done then give the people the choice. they are liable to the sin that they made( if it is really a sin).
"Catholic bank owned pill shares" – http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8180739.stm
what a bunch of hypocrites. they should have excommunicated themselves already.
So if RHBill brings down Abortion, then the CHURCH was to blame. Then they should excommunicate themselves.
BTW church never excommunicates INDIRECT causes (like themselves) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_excom…
If you happen to check out the list, Check out the church Forcing people to believe that the Pope is infallible. If you had to hold a gun to their head, I think we pretty much know who is BSing.
The Catholic Church falls under the category of a soveign state and, thus, have diplomatic relations with the Philippines. As such, as with other sovereign states, it has no right to meddle with our government's law-making processes, be it coming directly from the Holy See or through its representatives in the country (i.e. the cardinal, the priests, spokepersons, etc.), in the same manner that we do not have any say as to who will be the next Pope, and so on. If the Church would want to have a voice in our government, then a law must be enacted for the Church to pay taxes (to include real estate tax, earnings, etc.).
Why not excommunicate the pedophiles and sexual abusers within their ranks, for starters, before they meddle with State laws? The Catholic Church's hipocrisy is so annoying that it is getting the better of them.
There are priests walking around who have indirectly caused abortions because:
a) they have told parishioners its ok to use contraceptives–magpakatotoo lamang sila, there is a schism in the RC Church on this or;
b) they got women pregnant (some by rape) and the women went for abortions.
How are people to know if the priest who is administering the sacraments is excommunicated? Di ba automatic yon so there is really no public notice? They would not tell us anyway. So, do the babies baptized by these priests go to hell? Are the couples they wed really having illicit sex?
The Catholic Church falls under the category of a soveign state and, thus, have diplomatic relations with the Philippines. As such, as with other sovereign states, it has no right to meddle with our government's law-making processes, be it coming directly from the Holy See or through its representatives in the country (i.e. the cardinal, the priests, spokepersons, etc.), in the same manner that we do not have any say as to who will be the next Pope, and so on. If the Church would want to have a voice in our government, then a law must be enacted for the Church to pay taxes (to include real estate tax, earnings, etc.).
Why not excommunicate the pedophiles and sexual abusers within their ranks, for starters, before they meddle with State laws? The Catholic Church's hipocrisy is so annoying that it is getting the better of them.
Brilliant point. Why do they meddle in the affairs of the government when they don't even pay taxes? 🙁
Good point. Why Church shouldn't pay taxes is beyond me.
Oh no, it can be as broad church as one can get!
please read through John 8:7
excommunicating shouldn't be practiced.
not even the disciples were perfect.
abortion and harming the pope are the only 2 things that can get you excommunicated? so which one did Martin Luther do? what about Joan of Arc? geeze for a bishop, mr cruz really has shoddy knowledge of catholic policies, there's a long list of people who have been excommunicated for whatever silly reason.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_excom…
wes this is such a fun link. 😀
Mr Big mouted Damaso. so what the f happened to his previous expose… ano ka … mahilig sa limelight
[True, we really shouldnt care. We should do a Henry VIII and make our own version of the religion. ]
Actually, the Unitarian Universalists might be a good place to go to for ex-Catholics. They're a genuinely nice bunch, and they're more reasonable on matters of faith.
excommunication? where do i sign? B)
I want to sign up for that!
They never said Pnoy would be excommunicated. That is a lie and a misrepresentation of what was said!
Re abortions, they didn't count the chemical abortions due to the pill, the morning after pill, and the IUDs. Many more studies point to an increase in abortions with increased contraceptive use, not less.
China doesn't have accurate statistics and has one of the highest forced abortion rates anywhere in the world.
[Re abortions, they didn't count the chemical abortions due to the pill, the morning after pill, and the IUDs. Many more studies point to an increase in abortions with increased contraceptive use, not less. ]
So kindly cite which studies you are referring to, because as it stands the evidence is against you:
https://filipinofreethinkers.org/2011/01/20/contra…
And btw, attempting to link to sites explicitly leaning "Pro-Life," Fox News, Whale.to, and company will get you laughed at 😉
[China doesn't have accurate statistics and has one of the highest forced abortion rates anywhere in the world. ]
State-enforced abortions, moron.
Where exactly does our RH Bill enforce such measures? The Bill has been geared to leaving the choices entirely up to the poeple, and even then, it was quite explicit in stating abortions are still illegal. It will not force the people to have to choice one of the family planning methods it will teach, and it certainly does not impose a set family size – decisions like that are left to the family.
Oh yeah like natural family planning method is any better. It's even worse. You've got 12 kids in your house and you have to feed them all your life. Half of them become criminals. I'm guessing one of them becomes the next "Al Capone" or "Idi Amin," that it'll be great! More criminals and more dickheads like these priests to deal with, what a paradise!
I'd rather kill myself to save me all that work I had to put on in raising them. Death is not the worse thing that can happen to person dude.
Missed the point as usual the free stinkers!
Bombard the airwaves,print,outdoor ads,Internet,etc etc etc with sex is fun,forget the consequences,gay is joy,Gods 10 commandments is just a suggestion,life is only precious after one is born,the rest? Their just a blob of blood.America,Europea,Protestepia,etc are Gods in themselves.Filipinos are stupid to fear God and even stupider to elect President whose love does not know the difference between sacrifice and corruption!Cory is just an aberration,Bury Marcos in a heroes hell!who cares? Maybe Binay?Easter is near!
<div id="idc-comment-msg-div-144201102" class="idc-message"><a class="idc-close" title="Click to Close Message" href="javascript: IDC.ui.close_message(144201102)"><span>Close Message</span> Comment posted. <p class="idc-nomargin"><a class="idc-share-facebook" onclick="IDC.ui.fb_wrapper(144201102)" href="javascript: void(null)" style="text-decoration: none;"><span class="idc-share-inner"><span>Share on Facebook</span></span> or <a href="javascript: IDC.ui.close_message(144201102)">Close Message I don't get your logic. The article has all the facts and all you Church fanatics have your threats of ex communication and eternal burning in hell. And for what? Do you even understand what you’re fighting for here? Do you even understand what the RH bill is? It promotes education on what we are capable of. Please stop hindering the progress so your priests can continue to molest little children.
PS. I get a head ache just seeing your grammar. Please just write in Filipino to save yourself the humiliation. ‘Stupider’ is not a word. And learn how to use ‘your, you’re…’ etc.
I don't get your logic. The article has all the facts and all you Church fanatics have your threats of ex communication and eternal burning in hell. And for what? Do you even understand what you’re fighting for here? Do you even understand what the RH bill is? It promotes education on what we are capable of. Please stop hindering the progress so your priests can continue to molest little children.
PS. I get a head ache just seeing your grammar. Please just write in Filipino to save yourself the humiliation. ‘Stupider’ is not a word. And learn how to use ‘your, you’re…’ etc.
Next thing you know, we'll be legalizing gay marriage, and cats and dogs will start living together!
WHAT IS THE WORLD COMING TO???
Maybe it would be better if they would legalize gay marriages, then that would spare thousands of young boys from being molested by gay priests. At least they would not have to hide their sexuality and can express it with mutually consenting partners rather than victimizing little boys who are supposed to be in their care.
Come to think of it, how dare the Church even imply excommunication due to their position on the RH Bill when they have not excommunicated their pedophile priests. In fact, they still remain as priests after their horrifying deeds. This Church of which I grew up with is sounding more and more like the Pharisees that Jesus heavily criticized.
"What is the World Coming to" you ask? You mean to say its been better off already prior to the changes? Wow, it seems the Philippine Church is trying to bring back the inquisition! So my answer is what is the Church coming to? I believe in the God Jesus taught us, a compassionate Father, not some legalistic Pharisaic Church hierarchy. The Church has to grow up!
Mr. Eric Manalang, if it is really you who posted, I have some advice for you. For your own sake, and also for the sake of all the deluded people who believe in you and your sorry excuse for a cause, please learn to articulate yourself. I'm sure there are people in your camp who would want that for you too but none of them are frank enough to tell you how you sound like whenever you try to express yourself in writing. Your articles, comments and Facebook wall posts serve to give us a good laugh, and you don't want us missing your points, do you?
Mr. Manalang, tuluyan ka na atang nasiraan ng bait. Pagkatapos kang mag exorcism dyan, pinuno mo naman ng mga nazi swastika ang facebook account mo. Punong puno ng panlalait at sama ng loob ang mgasinusulat at sinasabi mo na nagdududa na talaga ako pag may saysay ba talaga ang pagiging Pro-Life mo.
Pati ba naman ang World Vision ay nagawan mong siraan at laitin dahil lang sang-ayon sila sa maayos na paraan ng family planning? Ganun ba kakitid ang utak mo na ipagkakait mo pa ang tulong na nagagawa nila sa mga mahihirap na bata dahil lang di sila uto-uto sa mga kasinungalingan at kabobohan ng Pro-Life?
Why is it a big deal if you are excommunicated? Is your believed salvation dependent on the approval of some ossified close-minded monkeys (I realize this must be offensive… to the monkeys)? When they excommunicate you for your stand to this bill, do you think that also entails that you are shunned by your god?
Honestly, WHY BOTHER fighting against excommunication? Let them excommunicate all they want, soon enough they wont have any more people to bully, manipulate or scare to serve their own selfish agendas.
True, we really shouldnt care. We should do a Henry VIII and make our own version of the religion.
But it is the ultimate form of punishment by the Church, a religious equivalent of the death sentence if will. To throw it's weight around like that is insulting to any individual. Throw it on something for the common good is insulting. Using it against the president is damn straight a slap on the face.
You might want to read Noli me Tangere and El Filibusterisimo for reference. It explains well why DAMASO makes a strong impact,
[True, we really shouldnt care. We should do a Henry VIII and make our own version of the religion.
] VDB
POPE ORDERS SHARP ACTION.; Archbishop of Manila Instructed to Excommunicate Philippine National Church Promoters. New York Times. New York, N.Y.: Dec 29, 1902. pg. 7, 1 pgs.
Note that the Aglipay were against the Catholic Friars who were tying up the Revolutionaries hands and threatening the lives of many Filipino Revolutionaries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Independe…