If you live inside Facebook, I’m pretty sure you’ve already seen someone posting this video, (or maybe you’ve posted it yourself to perpetuate the chain). However, on several occasions I’ve pointed out that the alleged account of a classroom encounter between young Albert Einstein and an atheist professor is FICTION. The exchanges never took place, and Albert Einstein, whom many deem the most intelligent person who ever lived, is not a Christian.
Moreover, we know it’s not true because Einstein, the most famous scientist of the 20th century responsible for the famous E=mc2 equation, was a careful thinker who would never have put forward the specious logic attributed to him.
Comparing Apples to Oranges
Does cold exist? or is it simply the absence of heat? Well, both heat and cold are actually labels physicists give to varying degrees in temperature. What exists is temperature. High or low. We call “cold” the lowest level of heat.
Does darkness exist? or is it simply the absence of light? Well, there are degrees of darkness as there are degrees of light, since light is made of sub-atomic particles called photons. Hence, a dark object reflects fewer visible photons than other objects, and therefore appears dim in comparison. (One example is Dark Matter. Astronomers theorize it makes up 25% of the known universe. This could be classified as darkness because it is invisible matter.)
Now, does evil exist? or is it simply the absence of good? Here is the heart of the problem, the previous two given contrasts — cold VS heat, dark VS light — concern physical properties of the universe, meaning material existence. Evil is not physical, because it has no mass, energy, etc., and it’s not quantifiable. So evil is not the same as cold and darkness, as the young student (not Einstein) wrongfully said.
Therefore the whole proposition of the video crumbles into pieces when you notice that the analogy is wrong. Saying evil happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart is no help either, since it’s basically a self-serving non-argument without the slightest foundation of fact.
The Real Albert Einstein
“I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. “
-Albert Enstein, letter to an atheist (1954), quoted in Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas & Banesh Hoffman
“A man’s ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death. “
– Albert Einstein, “Religion and Science,” New York Times Magazine, November 9, 1930
Kiel,
You said Science is improving and open to innovation, we theists believe that our God does not need any innovation since He's perfect at Immutable pa.This is the most satisfying reality in our beliefs.
Kaya may innovation ang Science kasi its not perfect. Biologists in the 19th century concluded that all mammals cannot lay eggs, at na discover ang duck-billed platypus. but those obstinate scientists simply dismissed the existence of an egg-laying duck-billed (even webbed-footed) Platypus.They consider the none existence of the said creature, they consider it "Science".Today, Platypus is considered a mammal, uy what happened? Facts demand consistency.Do you consider it "science"?
Eh, bakit bilib na bilib ka dun? Eh I hope you get my point.
Science without "God" is lame.
At isa pa, You said, "dati ang tao nangangarap lang lumipad, at ngayon may eroplano na". Honestly, I think it was a very hilarious statement. Bakit nakakalipad ba ang tao? Di ba ang eroplano ang lumilipad, hindi ang tao? Sumasakay lang ang tao sa lumilipad na eroplano.
Isang hirit pa, walang pinagmulan ang Diyos…. Do you really know what "ETERNAL" means?
Alvin, you didn't get my point on my example about the flying thingy. You've just gave me a good laugh. Thanks about that though. And by the way, perfect and immutable in what sense?
Den, its not a clear display of ignorance but its only being true to our nature as rational beings.
God, the ground of all that exist, cannot not exist. Existence is the very nature of God. Suffice to describe God as existing. I would even dare to say that existence is God. Whoever denies God as existing denies his/her very existence. Therefore, we cannot take seriously that who denies his/her own existence. However, I respect those who claim to be atheists if they deny a particular religious claim of the nature of this God. There are religious groups who say that God is this or that without having really understood what they are saying. A good atheist can help these religious person clarify his claims. But, it is a clear display of ignorance if he claims that God does not exist.
ack! i've never seen this video before..
i've read some forwarded emails about it though (never believed that einstein said something like that)
this video is teaching the usage of incorrect arguments through misleading analogies. tsk tsk.
The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all comprehensible.
— Albert Einstein
@kiel
religion and science are like two guys playing two very different games…
while science is not content on just knowing without proof and evidence, religion, on the other hand, will accept thing at face value because of faith… believing, and being certain about it, without evidence and proof….
@GabbyD : sorry for the word. nakakaasar at nakakasawa lang kasi magexplain sa mga taong close minded.
@Alvin : nakakasawa makipagdebate sayo. halatang di mo inintindi yung huli kong pinost e. its not that God forbids, its that you guys dont seek. Ang mga tao dati e nangangarap lang makalipad, pero ngayon may mga eroplano na. That's my point. Kahit na may gaps at errors sa science, the fact that its improving and open to innovations, mas satisfying na mkisabay sa pagiisip na iyon kaysa sa mag stick ka sa isang bagay na di naman mkatotohanan.
@crusader : isa ka pa. di ka ba makaintindi. kayo nga ang nagbubulagbulagan. nakalahad na ang madaming ebidensya pero pinipilit nyo parin ang walang katotohanan niyong relihiyon. hindi mahirap magisip kung sanay ka magisip, nagmumukha lang iyong mahirap sa mga taong di nagiisip. and FYI, walang dakilang lumikha, kung meron man, sino ang lumikha sa kanya? may explanation na nga ang science sa ating pinagmulan pero kayo ay nananatiling naniniwala sa isang kasinungalingan. sa ngayon di pa kaya iexplain ng science ang buong sanlibutan pero atleast its trying to understand. kesa naman sa inyo na kuntento na sa explanation na wala man lang ebidensya.
last comment ko na to dito sa article na ito. nakakasawa na magexplain sa mga taong close minded at di open sa ibang idea.
Yun nga ang hirap sa mga taong tulad nila nakikita na nila nagbubulagbulagan pa at pinipilit alamin pero nakalahad na sa kanila totoo ang sinabi ni alvin feeble minded nga kami kasi mas madli namin naiintindihan kung ano ang gawa ng Dakilang Lumikha.
sa totoo lang di rin nila kya i-explain ang buong sanlibutan mas lalo pa nila pinahihirapan ang sarili nila.
let me join alvin @October 27, 2009 at 3:38 pm
religious people are not feeble minded.
Here's my edited version of my earlier post. I made a minor typo in the first one.
I’m a theist. I believe that God exists. the big question remains on The existence of God. You may ask me, does God exist?” (A major Philosophical issue now enters the discussion.)
The question is: Is existence a predicate? iS GOD merely an imaginary idea or a real being? You may say “We cannot know that merely by thinking about it."
Here’s the crux of the matter. To say that something exists is to make a synthetic statement. To falsify a statement can be easy analytically but very difficult synthetically.For example(I love examples because sabi mo nga mga feeble minded kaming mga Kristyano), if I say a triangle has four sides or a husband has never been married (not even by common law) my statements are falsified.
They are false by definition. “Parang sinabi mo na rin na ang Square ay circle.” When we move o he realm of Synthetic, matters can become more difficult.
Suppose I say, “there is oil in Negros.” Now I have a big trouble. I can verify the statement if I find oil in NEgros. If I find oil the statement is proven true. But what if I don’t find oil? How much of Negros must I examine before I can say “There is no oil in Negros”? Every square millimeter. But suppose I do that and find no oil. Has the claim “there is no oil in Negros” been falsified? No. It has not been verified, but it has not been falsified either. perhaps my examination of Negros i overlooked something empirically just like what i said in my earlier post, our empirical powers are always finite and subject to error.
Can you prove to me that God does not exist? If you can convince me with your reasoning then magpapa-convert ako sa atheism. That’s a challenge.
Kiel ay hope babasahin mo talaga to with undestanding.
Most religious people are feeble minded in what sense?
I know of some "Scientific" geeks that are not even capable handling simple peer pressures, that even the simplest feeble minded christian can successfully overcome. You said, "i've totally lost my urge to search for the truth", how dare you say that?! Has truth been lost? NO! The fact is that we are lost, not the Truth.Aminin mo na kasi that not everything sa buong Universe ay malalaman mo. God forbid. Just accept the fact that you are finite.
FYI I do not entrust my learning or whatever you may call it to Religion. religion curtails explanation, that's what I hate about the traditional reactionary religion.
"Existence of God does not provide any scientific proof", you said. Hey Kiel (CanaL),
The Universe shouts them all! Can't you hear it?! Cosmological "Kalam" Argument is enough Kiel.
I'm a theist, and a thinking one. You invoke of truth, what do you know about Truth?
You said there are still gaps in the human mind but science is there… di ba "science" means "knowledge" rin? Human mind contains knowledge, even the determiner of knowledge,the human mind that is subject to error. Where's the ground of certainty in that?
Will you leave everything unexplainable to chance? Will you leave to "chance" to do the explanation? Chance is the absence of explanation.
I hope nabasa mo yung earlier post ko with understanding.
Alvin, It is true that most religious people are feeble minded. Ignorant of reality and living with fantasy.
God as you say is not verified, but when can you verify him if he doesn't have ANY scientific proof that will lead you to him. Kumbaga naghahanap ka ng wala. Umaasa ka sa wala. Iniisip mo kasi na finite and subject to error ang ating isipan kaya lahat ng bagay na di mo ma-explain ay irerelate mo na lang kay God. You've totally lost the urge to search for the truth because Religion provides simple, easy explanations but if you think out of the dogmas, you'll realize that they're really aren't explanations.
It is true that there are still gaps in the understanding of the human mind but science is there,actively seeking out of ignorance and there is religion, teaching us to be contented with not really understanding. Religion stops the impulse to understand.
Kiel,
Ginawa nang tao ang ideya ng Diyos? Any proof? Is God a universal obsessional neurosis? Ganun ba yun? Le me ask you a simple question…
Do you believe in he dark matter?
Any Proof?
to the Question Does God exist? I said YES. You replied "gawa gawa lang yun ng tao". And you added " PAnlubag loob lang siya ng mga aong mahina mag isip". Now you are saying that we Christians are feeble minded, yun ba yun?
Can you handle science and logic? Does he word "God" mean anything to you? What is the Ultimate Reality?
I'm a theist. I believe that exists. the big question remains on he existence of God. You may ask me, does God exist?" (A major Philosophical issue now enters the discussion.)
The question is: Is existence a predicate? iS GOD merely an imaginary idea or a real being? You may say "We cannot know that merely by thinking about it.
Here's the crux of the matter. To say that something exists is to make a synthetic statement. To falsify a statement can be easy analytically but very difficult synthetically.For example(I love examples because sabi mo nga mga feeble minded kaming mga Kristyano), if I say a triangle has four sides or a husband has never been married (not even by common law) my statements are falsified.
They are false by definition. "Parang sinabi mo na rin na ang Square ay circle." When we move o he realm of Synthetic, matters can become more difficult.
Suppose I say, "there is oil in Negros." Now I have a big trouble. I can verify the statement if I find oil in NEgros. If I find oil the statement is proven true. But what if I don't find oil? How much of Negros must I examine before I can say "There is no oil in Negros"? Every square millimeter. But suppose I do that and find no oil. Has the claim "there is no oil in Negros" been falsified? No. It has not been verified, but it has not been verified either. perhaps my examination of Negros i overlooked something empirically just like what i said in my earlier post, our empirical powers are always finite and subject to error.
Can you prove to me that God does not exist? If you can convince me with your reasoning then magpapa-convert ako sa atheism. That's a challenge.
Here's another question, Is existence a predicate?
Lucius ferrer,
Exactly, it was God who made him(Jacob) Holy. HE WAS MADE HOLY BECAUSE HE WAS NOT HOLY.Jacob was a liar of the worst kind, but God's grace made him HOly. That's he wonder of God's grace.
you write: "Therefore the whole proposition of the video crumbles into pieces when you notice that the analogy is wrong. "
its called a metaphor. its supposed to be a comparison between apples and oranges.
For me, there is a proof that God doesn't exist simply because there is no proof that God exist. Religious people proclaim the name of God and his holy teachings and words, but in the first place, did God really bestow this power unto them? Is there any proof that the Almighty gave them the authority to spread these words? In my opinion, clergymen and priest claims only for them self these authority to judge whether you are good or evil. Indeed man is selfish. We can be moral people without religion and god.
At the end of the day there is really no right and wrong. There is no proof that He doesn't exist but no proof as well to say that He doesn't.
If no man had ever gone around the earth then there would have been no proof to say if it was flat or round…
I agree with not taking Bible quotations. Not because they are man-made but because they cannot be taken LITERALLY. These writings are based on scriptures you have never ACTUALLY seen, and the Bible and other religious references to ANCIENT scriptures are actually MERE INTERPRETATIONS of such writings. INTERPRETATIONS made by another PERSON. Noting that todays Bible readers have not SEEN, TOUCHED or even TRANSLATED the actual sources of such, these writings could EASILY be ALTERED to serve religious' leaders' purpose of gaining more followers and instilling THEIR OWN BELIEFS AND INTERPRETATION OF THE SCRIPTURE. Most scriptures may not even speak of ACTUAL TRUE EVENTS but are merely FORMS of Literature.
At the end of the day, we INDIVIDUALLY decide what we want to believe in and how we want to affect us. But we should also accept teh REALITY of what the world holds for us and the FACTS that govern our decisions.
When a man takes innocent lives and does it for his own reason and another fights him for it… You won't have a man who is wrong and right. You would only have two men fighting for what they believe is right. Wala nga namang maling opinyon, only different opinions and moral standards that men stand up for. People hated hitler for taking so many lives and they believe their right, meanwhile, Hitler believed HE was right as he thought the lives he took will make the world a better place. Unfortunately, while no opinion is wrong it is also true that NOT ALL opinion is ACCEPTABLE to ALL.
Confucious said: "Do unto others what you want others to do unto you" In my opinion, men by nature are SELFISH. They want THEIR opinion to be right, Their own beliefs to be acknowledged as fact and their own to be saved. Most of the time no-one dare tries to understand, the social, economic or cultural background of person before they dare judge them as crazy or stupid, and therefore respect their own opinion on faith and other matters. But since this rule of "Do unto others what you want others to do unto you" is also selfish, IN MY OPINION, if men could live by this simple rule we'd all be getting along just fine. If you don't like being judged for what you believe in then maybe you shouldn't judge others. Judging is VERY EASY, understanding and respecting another person's opinion is HARD. So who's gonna be the WUSS?
Well very interesting video. ya truly this is only a concept but they want to emphasize here is God really exist, about His creation cold & heat, light & dark.and it also can apply in spiritual life. I know every here are freethinkers but people it is by faith not by sight. many people has testified God really exist even now we can say it why we breath, why there's an air we breath. why the babies crying, why we cry why we feel hurt, happy, it's because we have feelings and God is Love. why we love the human, the creatures and all living things. it is enough to prove God is exist.like Jesus said "3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
I know scientist said to see is to believe like apostle thomas when jesus visit them here are the verse "Jesus Appears to Thomas
24Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, "We have seen the Lord!"
But he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it."
26A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!" 27Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe."
28Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
29Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
30Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31But these are written that you may[a] believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.
I hope this can help
just musing around
@kiel
maybe the 20 commandments (there are two versions) were only intended for "god's people", just like saying, "you, a filipino, thou shall not kill another filipino.." so it wouldn't interfere with joshua's massacre thingy just a few pages after… (though archeologist said that the story of joshua's conquest never happened)
@karen
giving the non believers the burden of proving that god doesn't exist is like asking someone to prove that there is no fairy living inside your pants…
@alvin
so it was your god who made that lying guy holy?? worse than i thought…
@ Kiel: Thank you for your response.
I do indeed understand the concept of evolution and natural selection. There's obviously much to comprehend, i.e. DNA, proteins, amino acids, etc. When did life begin, how did it begin? I would recommend viewing the following video – it takes only about 10 minutes. If you are not intrigued, don't bother viewing the remaining sequences, however, there is much to learn from these 21st century scientists/biologists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4z0IVivslc&NR…
In addition, there is no proof that God doesn't exist. Since creation, humanity has been afforded choices. It isn't a sin to have a choice, it is the choice we choose that causes the problem. I once watched a young boy choose to stick his hand underneath the enclosure of a zoo baboon. It seemed the creature was luring him by actually reaching under his cage for this kid's hand. Once the child's hand was within reach, the baboon grabbed his hand, yanked him to the ground, and sank his two large fangs into the young boy's hand, blood gushing everywhere. Wrong choice. Was he forced to place his hand where it shouldn't have been? Ironically, we are all like that child, testing the waters and tempting our fate. Fortunately for the boy, his lesson learned was difficult, but rest assured, he will not repeat the behavior.
Also, the Ten Commandments…in the New Testament, Jesus says that he comes not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. That means the human race is to take God's commandments to the next level. Rather than killing someone, we are to love (a person we despise enough to kill) as much as we love ourselves. What makes you think God hates us?
@Karen:
Bible is man made. Science is man made.
But the former is NOT based on critical thinking, observation, and experiments while Science is.
"never read of evolution playing out whereby a dog evolves into a cat"
@ Karen : there is really in no way that a dog will evolve into a cat because "evolution is change in the genetic material of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. Though changes produced in any one generation are normally small, differences accumulate with each generation and can, over time, cause substantial changes in the population, a process that can result in the emergence of new species."
I didn't watch the other video but did the scientists concluded that God created the universe, that he is the intelligent designer?
But it is said in the bible that having a choice and the capable to think is a sin. The reason why God forbid man to eat the fruit of wisdom, but due to an external force, adam and eve ate the fruit, thus committing the original sin. I'm not sure about this because i don't read the bible. This is just a product of my free thinking mind maybe.
"With your scientific views, with all that has been documented insofar as life on earth is concerned, why is it that we repeatedly see evolution of the species, but never read of evolution playing out whereby a dog evolves into a cat, or a monkey evolves into man? Yes, a poodle evolved from a wolf, yet a poodle and a wolf are still dogs."
@ Kiel : You don't even know the real concept of evolution. Read more about it before you talk about it.
@Kiel Hagoriles: FYI…Scientists are in human form and science is therefore, "man-made." If God is man-made, then certainly there is an option to go one way or the other – a choice. Cain killed Abel – God allowed it because it was Cain's choice, just as it is your choice to believe (or not to believe) in a creator. Death is a fact of life. Abortion is death and again created by man, not God. When a young woman enters an abortion clinic, what is God to do…strike her dead? She made a "choice," that's why it’s called "pro-choice" and supported by a vast majority of our population. If you had a son and caught him with his hand in your wife's purse stealing money, would you not correct him, or would you let him go about his business? Where do you think we acquired our moral code? As humans, we cheat, we lie, we kill and we are held accountable for our actions either here (on earth) or elsewhere. To think that we are just random nothingness for no purpose whatsoever is useless. With your scientific views, with all that has been documented insofar as life on earth is concerned, why is it that we repeatedly see evolution of the species, but never read of evolution playing out whereby a dog evolves into a cat, or a monkey evolves into man? Yes, a poodle evolved from a wolf, yet a poodle and a wolf are still dogs. When you ask me not to quote my "shitty" bible verses as it doesn't "help," if your convictions are such that there is no room for interpretation, what is it you are seeking help for? If it is understanding, please pick-up a Bible and read the information contained therein. Look at it as though it's a history class, you do believe in history, don't you? If God allowed His own son to die, why would any of us be spared?
Ooops another typo error. @Karen *
@ Karen : I know that science is man made but it has its proof while God doesn't. That's my point. If God allowed Cain to kill then it shows that he doesn't care for us and he's not serious about the ten commandments that he gave. God even shows us that it is a sin to have a choice and to think based on the original sin.
Ooops. Typo error. I mean Siyensya / Science
"Wow! All this debate over light and dark, cold and hot, good and evil is “puffed-up” intellectuals’ attempts at explaining something unexplainable."
@Karen : Maybe you didn't even understand those premises and arguments that's why you said that its just an attempt to explain something unexplainable. Science is there to explain those so called unexplainable stuff and you're just one of the many that bought and spread those shitty stories of the bible. And please stop quoting those shitty verses that came from those man made bible. It really doesn't help.
@Alvin : If holiness is the attribute of God then there is no such thing as holiness. God doesn't exist. Ginawa lang ng tao ang ideya ng Diyos. Pampalubag loob lang siya sa mga taong mahina magisip. Doon sa mga taong hindi kaya i-handle ang Sinensya at Lohika.
Naalala ko tuloy yung kaklase ko dati na dinaraan na lang sa pagdarasal ang pagpasa sa exam sa biology. Pasang awa lang tuloy yung grade niya nun. Nakakawa pa lalo kasi 2nd year high school na biology lang yun.
Holiness is not a man-made baloney. I said that Jacob WAS MADE holy, that holiness is not based on religious concept of Holiness. OK?
@ discreet infidel
My answer to your question ,"is killing innocent lives considered good?", is YES. That goodness is not based on subjective goodness that we know. To God this is good. He is the ultimate "goodness".
To the Question does God exist? my answer is yes. Well I know that most of you in the FF are atheists. I do respect your convictions.
Does God exist? You say NO.
Is there a proof that God does not exist?
God's existence has not been verified, but it has not been falsified either. We can never falsify the possible existence of something empirically because our empirical powers are always finite and subject to error.
LEt me Ask you this question, does the word "God" mean anything to you?
@Alvin John Ballares
then your God is not worth of worship if that would be the case. How can you worship a god who kills (or would permit/allow to kill) innocent lives? that @Alvin is not loving.
Holiness is the attribute of GOD. This holiness is not man made.
The is issue is basically on THEODICY. Is God good?
Yes HE is.
Wow! All this debate over light and dark, cold and hot, good and evil is "puffed-up" intellectuals’ attempts at explaining something unexplainable. Although Einstein did not believe in a PERSONAL God, he did espouse a creationist's mindset. His discussion of walking into a library filled with books, knowing there was much he couldn't explain about their authors or content, only that they indeed didn't poof out of thin air speaks volumes about his belief in a creator. He couldn't grasp man's fall from grace and the aftermath of evil. Like it or not folks, none of us gets out of here alive. Not all the money, fame, and book smarts can stop the inevitable. It would reason one would rather be safe than sorry. The debate will continue indefinitely, whether you're here or not and nothing you can say will correct itself if you're wrong. "I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm – neither hot nor cold – I am about to spit you out of my mouth." Rev. 3:13-16. Now there's a good hot/cold debate for you.
Hi HS.
The atheist professor's argument is as follow:
Premise 1. Evil exist
2. If God created everything
Conclusion: God is responsible for the evil in the world.
The young student's (not Einstein's) argument is this:
Premise 1. Cold does not exist
2. Darkness does not exist.
3. Evil is like Cold and Darkness.
Conclusion: Evil does not exist.
Premise 1 and 2 are scientifically wrong.
Premise 3 is wrong by fallacious comparison
therefore
Conclusion is wrong
Take note that denial of evil in this world is the young student's solution to the classic problem of evil against the existence of God.
Now, does evil exist? Evil is abundantly obvious, to say evil is just an illusion would be counter-intuitive. Whereas evil, define here as the collective suffering of any being- human and other animals- brought by natural forces. (like typhoons, earthquakes, hunger, in-born diseases, genetic defects, poisonous plants, and others)
Which bring us back to the logical incompatibility of evil in this world and the so-called existence of an all-powerful and all-loving God.
I did not dismiss evil just because it's not physical. I did that in the merit of it being a fallacy of reasoning on the argument.
rAmen!
@HS
And by the way, I think that most people in here are atheist so I think it is right to expect that most members in here would exclude religious concepts in their thinking.
@HS
"The point of the video was that religion is knowledge, too. You’ve demonstrated the absurdity that comes from excluding religious and philosophical concepts from your thinking."
I have to agree that religion is knowledge. But maybe the reason why Geri excluded religious concepts is because he knew or believe that those concepts are only illusions made up by a group of people who wanted to control other people's minds. Therefore it is a complete nonsense in including those concepts that you are saying.
@ Alvin
I think that holiness just came out of man's self interest. How can you say that someone or something is holy? It seems like holiness is just attributable to man and to the invisible being, but how about the other species?
@Alvin John Ballares
There are many other not so (or at least less)evil or crude ways for a loving and powerful God to show his glory. I mean, is killing innocent lives a 'good' way for a loving and powerful God to show his Glory?
there's natural holeyness and artifically-flavored holeyness?
holey-moley!
Lucius Ferrer,
Yup you're right, Jacob lied to his Father. He even tricked his Father in law Laban in multiple occasions. But God MADE him Holy. I hope you will see the distinction between naturally HOLY and MADE HOLY.
Gah! I hope this doesn't lead to yet another loooong discussion on morality and the nature of good and evil 😀 So before it does, let me just nip this in the bud and jump on ahead to the general consensus here that evil is subjective, it depends on your point of view. One camp's freedom fighter is another camp's terrorist. So if you're going to define "evil" as the absence of God's love, you'd end up with a tribal god that takes sides by favoring his chosen people.
Jong,
Yes you're right, God is Omnipresent.
But "Evil" is not the absence of God, I must correct young Einstein for that. God allowed evil to enter the world, that is to show forth His glory. He allowed evil, the opposite of His being, to enter the Human Race. I'll be vague for no…hehehe.
Geri,
I chanced upon your website while searching for information on the young Einstein story in the video. The video was very well done, but I agree with you that without any historical record that this incident occurred, it shouldn't be propagated as history. However, your refutation fails in a couple ways:
1. Just because something is illogical doesn't mean Einstein didn't say it at some time in his life.
2. By saying that evil doesn't exist in a physically quantifiable way you have avoided the question the professor asked in the video. If abstract qualities like evil and love are not real, how can you talk about them in a way we both understand? To follow through your conclusion, you need to define evil for yourself and show that the analogy doesn't work.
The point of the video was that religion is knowledge, too. You've demonstrated the absurdity that comes from excluding religious and philosophical concepts from your thinking.
"Evil is not physical… So evil is not the same as cold and darkness, as the young student (not Einstein) wrongfully said. Therefore the whole proposition of the video crumbles into pieces when you notice that the analogy is wrong. Saying evil happens when man does not have God’s love present in his heart is no help either, since it’s basically a self-serving non-argument without the slightest foundation of fact."
Let me try that! "Logic is not physical… Geri's argument is based on logic… Therefore it's basically a self-serving non-argument without the slightest foundation of fact."
Gah!
Why does religion try to claim people like Einstein while associating Hitler with atheism when in reality its the other way around? Last I heard, bearing false witness is a big no-no for religious folk.
A friend of mine posted this on Facebook and I wasnt' able to stop myself from commenting:
"Cold is just the absence of heat. Darkness is just the absence of light. Evil is just the absence of God's love in man's heart. But I thought God was supposed to be omni-present. Why the absence now?"
just musing around
@wes
"Last I heard, bearing false witness is a big no-no for religious folk." – i think it depends actually,,, i guess if they are to gain then it's ok for them to lie… their god will understand and forgive them…
in the bible, Jacob lied to his father Isaac and yet he is considered as a "holy man",,
@Geri
Yes astronomy really fascinates me, that's why along with math, physics, cosmology, and sci-fi, it's one of my other passions and interests.
Indeed Hawking radiation postulates that black holes are not entirely black since they also emit radiation.
Hi Geri
Dark matter is matter that does not interact with light. That's why we can't see it. There is still light albeit it's non-interacting with dark matter. So in relation to what you mentioned about darkness, dark matter would seem to be agnostic to the light-dark notion.
Of course a quick Google search or Wikipedia search will 'enlighten' people more about dark matter. 🙂
@ Red – Oh yes we can add that, Einstein has really lots of insightful thoughts on the issue of God and religion, and he's no pussyfooter, which is another reason to admire him more. Thanks for the further reference.
@ f241vc15 – That’s a wonderful explanation you got there. It reminds me also that even black hole radiates! (Hawking) Astronomy is really a fascinating science.
my concern is many people are misinformed about einstein and his views about religion …
Geri, pwede pa 'to ihabol sa post mo: http://www.lettersofnote.com/2009/10/word-god-is-…
If we are to evolve as a species and as a civilization, we need to have ethics that are beyond religion. Honesty, industry, compassion and just being ourselves will take us further than the "carrot and stick" ideas of old.
Excellent post! Einstein ftw!
Someone thought I was Christian? Oy vey!