Years ago, in my ironically state-run science high school, the Optional Religious Instruction program held a screening of Mel Gibson’s The Passion of the Christ. As I sat through a torture porn-level scene of Jesus getting the bejesus kicked out of him, I noticed people sobbing around me. At first, it sounded like the deep inhaling from a hearty laugh, until I turned around to look. I saw students weeping profusely into handkerchiefs while a man was being beaten to a pulp onscreen. The reason was clear to me even then—these kids believed they were responsible for the man being executed.
The doctrine of Original Sin, Adam and Eve’s disobedience to God at the Garden of Eden, culminates on Easter, at Jesus’ resurrection. According to Christian belief, we inherited this sin from the first people, and because of that, we are condemned to die. In his letter to the Romans, the Apostle Paul wrote, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” Jesus’ resurrection was meant to be victory over death, and that meant cleansing mankind of sins, including the Original one.
Vicarious atonement
As written in Isaiah, interpreted as fulfilled by Jesus, “But he was wounded for our transgressions… with his stripes we are healed.” The Judeo-Christian faith believes in vicarious atonement. That is to say, it is possible to make up for one’s sins by having something else pay for them. This is the root of “scapegoating,” when the Jews cast out a goat on the Day of Atonement, to die in the desert. This goat would carry their sins and its removal from the tribe showed God’s forgiveness. Jesus’ death and resurrection is this ritual taken to the extreme—God Himself as the sacrificial lamb (another related idiom) for the forgiveness of sins.
But it is not enough for Jesus to simply die. He must overcome death and resurrect. The resurrection is key to the Christian mythology. As Paul wrote in his first letter to the Corinthians, “And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.”
Vicarious guilt
This is the Christian faith: that Jesus died for our sins that we may have eternal life, if we believe. This is why my fellow students were crying in that auditorium. They felt the crushing guilt of having a man’s death on their conscience. Perhaps the guilt was never that real to me, but I completely understand that what they did was the most appropriate thing to do—if they truly believed that God Himself was tortured and crucified for their sake. In their eyes, we put Jesus on the cross. We were to blame for the horrific scene we were witnessing in bloody detail. Our sins killed Jesus.
Then again, I never asked Jesus to die, and neither did they. It is asserted by Christians that we owe God our lives because he saved us from the fires of hell. But the entire metaphysics of sin leading to death and the inheritance of sin itself—this is all God’s handiwork. When the first couple supposedly sinned 10,000 years ago, sometime after the invention of glue, none of us were there. And yet, it has been ordained that every child born would have the stain of their sin—a stain that can only be cleansed in Christian baptism.
A baby that dies before baptism is sent to limbo. Since they have no sins apart from the Original, but did not receive salvation, innocent babies are sent to this no-man’s land outside of Heaven, Hell, and Earth. (Incidentally, limbo as a doctrine is not an official Catholic teaching. It remains a “theological hypothesis,” one of the most bizarre contradictions in terms ever produced by the human mind.) The bottom line is, if you are not saved by Jesus in his religion, whatever the case may be (even for geographically isolated tribes and mentally challenged humans), you are going to suffer somehow. There are some theological gymnastics used to wriggle out of the despicable belief of hell for all non-Christians, of course. Nevertheless, the only surefire way to avoid hell still is and always will be toeing the mainstream Christian line. As Jesus said, in the Gospel according to John, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
Holy blackmail
It is this strange and extreme case of emotional blackmail, where God will condemn you if you do not love him, that is at the core of the Easter celebration and, consequently, at the core of every mainstream Christian faith. And the blackmail’s not even for something we did!
I never asked Jesus to die, and neither did you. I would never ask a person to die for my own sins. I certainly would never expect someone’s child to pay for their parents’ sins (much less their descendants thousands of years from now). These are basic things we expect from every sane and ethical person. Christianity expects us to believe that God is the exact opposite of a sane and ethical person—and we are supposed to worship Him.
Image credit: Still from The Passion of the Christ
One thing we should look at is Religion / Salvation is a big business.
Bible was written thousands of years ago and could have lost in translation somewhere in the process.
Yes, there is a GOD, A Jesus who was born and resurrected and the HOly Spirit.
what we need to practice is LOVEone another . this is the only commandment Jesus thought us. regardless of all the religious belief.
Don’t feel the guilt for its already been paid by the blood of Jesus.what is happening is all marketing of religion.
Wouldn’t you be grateful to a person who gifted you with a car eventhough you didn’t ask for it, especially when you are in dire need of one?
I would never worship a god who died for me just because I asked him to. The nobility of an act is its volitional altruism not because of necessity, compulsion or coercion. And if Jesus really died for my sins, then praise God because I didnt have to beg him to. Such is the wonder of God’ love perhaps atheists would never be able to understand.
village atheists like you give atheism a bad name
Undergraduate atheism at its best. hahaha
You never asked the Katipuneros and Rizal to die for you. You did not ask your mom and dad to care for you while you were an infant. You never asked for the government to build roads, schools, hospitals, SSS, etc.
Sa akin lang, sana naman mag level up maski sa logic lang. Bercero pa naman is one of the faces of atheism dito sa pinas.
Kaka disappoint.
While the main premise of the article may hold true [because it was really the Jews, Pilate and Herod who condemned Christ to death], I would make an assumption that most of his arguments are pure misunderstandings from a non-theistic view who has failed to do his homework on the Judeo-Christian worldview.
“According to Christian belief, we inherited this sin from the first people, and because of that, we are condemned to die.”
As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; Romans 3:10
While the latter part is true; I’d like to correct his term “inheritance” of sin. This is a catholic doctrine which needs to be discussed. The main problem during the fall is that God gave us free will. Have you ever thought that, if God really hated sin why did he not choose to create humans who would whole heartedly obey whatever he says? More like robots who follow every command his master tells him. I believe we were created for a deeper purpose. [This will be explained in the end]
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him, male and female he created them. Genesis 1:27
This is where free will comes in, his plan was to create humans that he has endowed with the unique ability to decide for themselves. Unfortunately, man chose himself. When they chose to eat the fruit of good and evil [the original sin]. The extent of free will carried over to mans ability to dictate morality that is defining good and evil. And what happens when man had the ability to choose between good and evil? Let us look at history and see for ourselves.
Also let me just commend the guy who said this “The burden of responsibility does not automatically become weightless the moment you deny to admit it.”
Enough said.
“And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.”
This is true; without the doctrine of resurrection the entire dogma of Christianity would be a lie.
“This is the Christian faith: that Jesus died for our sins that we may have eternal life, if we believe. This is why my fellow students were crying in that auditorium. They felt the crushing guilt of having a man’s death on their conscience”
Thats just the authors biased assumption to relate this film with this idea. First, of all I am sure the reason why the students were crying is because they feel empathy for the gruesome death of Christ. Second, I do understand that this is the emotion that the film is trying to elicit. Third, I could not speak for your fellow students but I can’t really say if they even know the doctrines you are talking about let alone cry for a doctrine you are trying to refute.
“Perhaps the guilt was never that real to me”
This may be your attempt to validate your disbelief
“but I completely understand that what they did was the most appropriate thing to do—if they truly believed that God Himself was tortured and crucified for their sake. In their eyes, we put Jesus on the cross.”
Again an assumption.
“We were to blame for the horrific scene we were witnessing in bloody detail. Our sins killed Jesus.”
While this is technically true, he forgets to point out that this was also part of God’s redemption plan for man kind. Right after the fall, the plan for salvation has already been established.
14The LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, Cursed are you more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you will go, And dust you will eat All the days of your life; 15And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.”
The death of Jesus is a voluntary death.
I lay down my life that I might take it again. No man takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again
(John 10:17-18)
The story of Christ death on the cross is a manifestation of his love to man kind only in the cross of Christ can we see perfect peace and justice become united in one death on a Friday afternoon
It is asserted by Christians that we owe God our lives because he saved us from the fires of hell.
We don’t owe God anything, we are by ourselves destined for eternal damnation. What is man that God is mindful of him? This is a very wrong perspective. God doesn’t need our lives. We need God in our lives. If we do not accept what Christ has to offer, then we have everything to lose. But it was never an arbitrary decision for us to accept. Think about it, what would God loose if we didn’t give our lives to him?
“But the entire metaphysics of sin leading to death and the inheritance of sin itself—this is all God’s handiwork. When the first couple supposedly sinned 10,000 years ago, sometime after the invention of glue, none of us were there. And yet, it has been ordained that every child born would have the stain of their sin—a stain that can only be cleansed in Christian baptism.”
I could not speak for this doctrine…
A baby that dies before baptism is sent to limbo. Since they have no sins apart from the Original, but did not receive salvation, innocent babies are sent to this no-man’s land outside of Heaven, Hell, and Earth. (Incidentally, limbo as a doctrine is not an official Catholic teaching. It remains a “theological hypothesis,” one of the most bizarre contradictions in terms ever produced by the human mind.) The bottom line is, if you are not saved by Jesus in his religion, whatever the case may be (even for geographically isolated tribes and mentally challenged humans), you are going to suffer somehow. There are some theological gymnastics used to wriggle out of the despicable belief of hell for all non-Christians, of course. Nevertheless, the only surefire way to avoid hell still is and always will be toeing the mainstream Christian line. As Jesus said, in the Gospel according to John, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
The problem here, is again, his idea of the original sin. I can’t speak for the what the Catholics believe but in the world view that I am with; for people who are not within reason and could not decide from right and wrong [the fruit of good and evil/ original sin as you want to call it] namely children; mentally challenged humans who could not accept what Christ offered at the cross; I believe they will not experience eternal damnation. As for the geographically challenged tribes, I do believe that is the reason for Christ’s great commission.
“It is this strange and extreme case of emotional blackmail, where God will condemn you if you do not love him, that is at the core of the Easter celebration and, consequently, at the core of every mainstream Christian faith. And the blackmail’s not even for something we did!
So your telling me you haven’t sinned within this lifetime?
Romans 3:10 says
As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one;
Heres another verse: Romans 3:23
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
You have also quoted Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Whats the premise of the blackmail again?
I never asked Jesus to die, and neither did you. I would never ask a person to die for my own sins. I certainly would never expect someone’s child to pay for their parents’ sins (much less their descendants thousands of years from now). These are basic things we expect from every sane and ethical person. Christianity expects us to believe that God is the exact opposite of a sane and ethical person—and we are supposed to worship Him”.
Love and worship are not requirements from God but is a byproduct of Cristian’s gratefulness for what Christ has done for us. In this film with its graphic nature, it may lead people to feel empathy for Christ but this is not the point of who Christ is and what he has done. You see what he did is not some gruesome prophesied ritual in the Judeo-Christian world view, but an act of love for a hopeless human race. Now with your endowed free-will the call for salvation is not something thats arbitrarily decreed by a tyrannical deity but is a choice, given within this life bound by space and time. And when you’ve found love from this God there is no other expression of love from a human to a God but worship.
“It is in worship alone that wonder and truth coalesce, prefiguring the consummation of eternal communion.” – R. Zacharias
This is not enough. Christians believe that since Christ is God Incarnate, his suffering would be worth more than the suffering of the common man. For Christians, ‘God’ experienced death and humbled himself to experience dying, because being a scapegoat requires the sacrifice to die.
For the logic of dying for my sins when I did not ask him to do it, Christians believe that the Incarnate must become the Redeemer because he is the only one who can do it. Some Christians believe the act bridged man to God, since the temple that mediates between the people and the divine has been destroyed. Christians believe that this is an act of love.
If you ask me what I personally believe, I actually don’t buy the Incarnation story. The Bible is a nice piece of Jewish folk literature and it’s up to the person reading whether he believes it or not. However, it doesn’t make sense that Abraham’s ancestor picks up somebody’s love child to become his Avatar to save the world from the Fire.
That’s why it’s called GRACE.
Early humans had no way of telling how the world works then therefore resorted to his own understanding of his environment. When they encounter something beyond their understanding it is often attributed to an unknown power. The greatest of this power were attributed to the sun. Thus began the long occult of sun worshipers that emanates up until this day in the “modern” day of Christianity. You may seek out these topics to better understand what I meant. LUXOR EGYPTOLOGY ISRAEL ASTROLOGY MYTHOLOGY
Life will continue for a mosquito without even knowing whether a deity of some sort is after its welfare. As humans we are well known to elevate ourselves as compared to other beings that has equally tried to survive the elements. Our ego had grown to immense proportions we believe that our every move is monitored, that all our actions has certain consequences. We have grown to believe that there is another life besides the present, that our welfare is the blessing of a power that created the universe. That we alone are the only living thing amongst the vast cosmos.
Given the age group on the comments. I do believe that most of you had gone to a school of some sort. By now you should have known your history. Or at least the history of the belief you are trying to protect irregardless of all the human innuendos this has caused.
Religion does not unite. Religion does not feed the poor. Religion does not encourage you to realize your full potential. Religion keeps you meek, silent and obedient. And so far humanity is losing an unmanageable war. We destroy ourselves for a certain belief that had grown irrelevant.
Before you even think to criticize… Is it judgement that you are feeling right now? That according to your bible is a sin. Think about that.
Well said. I view religion as form of insanity. It’s also predominantly people with a lower IQ.
// I never asked Jesus to die, and neither did they //
Yes, we do not ask Jesus to die for our sins. Neither do we deserve it. But Jesus Christ, out of his eternal love for us, do it.
// When the first couple supposedly sinned 10,000 years ago, sometime after the invention of glue, none of us were there. And yet, it has been ordained that every child born would have the stain of their sin—a stain that can only be cleansed in Christian baptism. //
I think you should research on why the Catholic Church believe that. I highly suggest that you use the Catechism of the Catholic Church for you to determine the official teachings of the Catholic Church.
// A baby that dies before baptism is sent to limbo. //
Actually, it is still unknown as to where the unbaptized infants go when they die. You found it in the CCC also.
// Nevertheless, the only surefire way to avoid hell still is and always will be toeing the mainstream Christian line. As Jesus said, in the Gospel according to John, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” //
Actually, the Catholic Church does not teach that only those who are Catholic can be saved. Yes, it is true that baptism is necessary for salvation, this baptism is not only in the form the sacrament (as what is done in Church) but also in the form of sincere desire. That is what the theologians called the “baptism by desire.” Everyone, even if they are not Catholic or do not know Christ, can be “baptized” if they willingly desire to follow Christ by following His teachings of love (even without the knowledge of Jesus). However, the sacrament gives us assurance that we are already baptized.
Leaving that topic, I want to say to some of you who will argue against the doctrine of the Catholic Church that please read the official doctrine of the Church to see if a Catholic doctrine you think is really the Catholic doctrine. I’ve read some of the articles here in this organization and I always find false understanding of the faith. I think there is a need for improvement in this organization regarding that.
I pagdadasal ko nalang ang sumulat nito. I hope that God will make a way for you.
You are free to believe what you want, and i’m not highly spiritual either, but just a few facts to straighten out—
Guilt wasn’t wasn’t what made me cry at the movie; it was empathy. Here was a man at the forefront of a subject being drummed in your head—- wouldn’t it affect you to see them in a hyper realistic movie (which is what mel gibson’s movies are) to be so brutally treated? it makes you imagine about sanitation, hygiene, and depth of suffering etc. I cried at Apocalypto too, and so did the entire room watching with me and they were not even cosmically on the same plane.
“It is this strange and extreme case of emotional blackmail, where God will condemn you if you do not love him,” – you are condemned if you do not repent, a far cry from love. As in, God loves everyone— (at least in Catholic faith) but he only requires you to repent, and that is like letting him in your heart— (figurative). And hell is still saveable on judgement day.
Look, not shilling this down your throat or saying what you believe in bad. Faith, the amount of it, is personal and not good nor wrong. Just saying, if you must hold an argument against organized religion, do your due diligence on the facts. A criticism for most of the arguments here— you can’t seem to separate faith from the organization, just like other people can’t separate religion from the government.
Anyway, the concept of Adam and Eve’s Original Sin being passed to us is not general Christian teaching, it’s Catholic teaching.
Yes, you are right, no one asked for it. But because of God’s love, he died for us even though we do not asked of it.
Love is so illogical that it breaks the concepts of logic.
God gave people free will to choose what they want. It is up to us if we live by logic and programmed behaviors. But this one thing remains … Are the things you valued on earth have an eternal value?
Love is illogical that Jesus still offers you His love even though you don’t want it.
It is up to you to accept or refuse it.
I can give anything that I wanted to anyone even if they are not asking for it. I can forgive anyone who I wanted to forgive even if they are not asking for it. My parents can give me any good gifts that they wanted to even if I’m not asking for it.
I do believe that God can do anything that he wanted to. If he wants to create man and give them his law and punishment to those who disobeys it he can do it and there’s nothing we can do about that. If he’s holy and just there’s nothing we can do about that. If he’s loving and forgiving there’s nothing we can do about that. A gift is not something that we have asked for. It is a decision of a giver to give it to his chosen recepient for free though you can choose to reject it and suffer the consequences.
In this case (according to the bible):
-God is the lawmaker
-God is the accuser
-God is the judge
-God is the only lawyer that you could ever have on the day of trial.
Some things are true whether we believe it or not.
You’ve got it all wrong. The only thing that can cleanse our sin is the blood of Christ and not the water baptism. Also, our sinfulness hinders us from seeing why there’s a need for Jesus to die. We never asked him to but He did because of His great love for us. But I cannot do anything to convince you to believe.
Right, Jesus does not requires you to believe in him. It is still up to you. 🙂
Yes, you never did. Actually, no one ever did. It’s because.. First, given that God is the Supreme Being, no one is righteous to ask that favour from Him. Second, that’s why it’s a gift, you need not ask in order for it to be given to you. And last, that’s why it is God’s ultimate display of love, it’s the only way, but He doesn’t force you to it, the choice is for you to make – would you believe or not. The bottomline, God is God, and anyone’s disbelief of Him doesn’t make Him any less god.
Jer. 32:27 “I am the LORD, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?”
“Its so alarming a lot of young Filipinos are giving up their faith in God just because they think they know everything and are smarter than Him.” – from one of the comments
1. When was the last time your god revealed himself in a burning bush, and handed a vial that contained a cure for smallpox? Don’t remember? That’s because Edward Jenner discovered the cure in the 17th century, and was hailed as the father of immunology.
2. What was your god’s contribution in the field of magnetism and our current use of electricity? Don’t know? That’s because Nikola Tesla pioneered the use of the alternating current that powered cities in 1930 and today in 2014.
3. How did your god openly reveal the problem of global warming to the rest world? No idea? That’s because American scientist Wallace Smith Broecker beat him to it, with his area of research on chemical oceanography and therefore explored various possibilities and theories on the relationship between climate change, polar ice and ocean sediments. Al Gore just added some bits of showbiz.
If at some point in the history of the world man claimed to be smarter than your god, I guess man has the right to do so. I cite facts, not glorify theories imposed by your religion.
That is because, God created man with brains and should learn how to think for themselves. The reason why Edward Jenner, Tesla, Broecker and AlGore was able to do what they did was because of the knowledge God gave them. God’s creation is finished. We are here to take care of it and pro-create.
aren’t you going to die for your children, parents, brothers, or sisters? even if they don’t ask for it? i sometimes cry for the heroes that died liberating the philippines in 1898. if i ever had ancestors way back from thousands of years ago who died for my other forefathers and if my parents and grandparents have just passed on this story, i would probably reminisce that over again just like how i reminisce how my loved ones who passed away loved me during their lifetime every all souls’ day. i would have cried or not, but not because of the guilt they bestowed, but because of the memories of love. i totally respect the opinions on this blog, but on the other hand, my opinion is that this blog is at the same time trying hard to manifest rational thinking but lacks the logic to fully consider all aspects of emotions – only considering guilt but failing to look into love, memories, and affection.
We never asked Jesus to die for us but He still did because He loved us. However, I respect your unbelief but I don’t get the flow of your arguments. It seems like a rant only to an existing idea.
Also, it depends on what point of view of a type of Christianity. The world recognizes a person with a religion to be Christian if he/she associate him/herself with those. However, there are different types of which if this is to be analyzed. The Catholic Church believes that anyone can be saved by faith and their own works guided by the traditions rooted from the Middle Ages, other cultures and their own dogmas. For others, only faith alone saves while others have further additional dogmas. This difference also applies regarding babies, mentally-challenged people and from isolated tribes. This article generalize Christianity. Also we have a choice if we will believe it or not. How it does become a blackmail if out of feelings one believe and not driven by fear? If I watch something like the Holocaust movie, is that considered also a blackmail because it will produce the possibility of same feeling with that?
Being critical is not by generalizing personal opinions.
No matter or whatever sense of justice everyone things as they gather their thoughts from the bible, it is their own choice as they believe in those words, much less as the the who wrote this article. He/she may have his/her own belief but we have our own faith and beliefs, and each person is unique to their own therefore your observation to the people crying and Mel Gibson’s movie may have its flaw. My own thoughts of that movie only speculated questions of how tyrannical those times were, and if you were there during those times, you could have viewed things differently as we are doing now. You could either have been on the side of Jesus or not. We cant know for certain but all we can do is try to do things right. History is written in books is not fully 100% accurate but as an educated person, you would know and you can decide through your eyes and through your own mind in defining what is the right thing to do from what is wrong. Religion is a topic we cant really win in a debate however your thoughts of the movie is something to think of. Cheers
Another thought to be raised. If adam and eve could not distinguish right from wrong, why are they punished after eating the forbidden fruit? In the first place they don’t know that disobedience is wrong.
Think theists, your religion wants you to obey. They want to supress your intellectual freedom. How certain are you that you understand your religion like an agnostic/atheist does when in fact the religion you are trying to defend does not encourage you to think beyond your horizon.
Jesus died because he broke the Roman laws and had a profound disrespect for their culture. If he was a little more sensitive, he wouldn’t have ended up like that.
Also, why didn’t he just perform miracles when he was in trial? That would’ve proven he was indeed divine! He certainly didn’t have any problems performing miracles for his followers.
The fool said to his heart, there is no God….. Psalm 14:1
You said, “I saw students weeping profusely into handkerchiefs while a man was being beaten to a pulp onscreen. The reason was clear to me even then—these kids believed they were responsible for the man being executed.”
Doesn’t matter if you believe in Jesus as the “son of God” or whatever. I used to, but now I don’t. And still, I would have wept.
He’s a human being. And how can your heart not bleed and be pitiful for Mary? Or for his friends?
EVEN IF the movie was fully fictional. Let’s just say, for argument’s sake, it is fiction, that these are all make-believe. Wouldn’t you have wept for the character of Jesus?
In a theological sense, the statement “Jesus died for our sins” is actually an interpretation by those who have witnessed him. Jesus, a faithful and radical Jew, a righteous man, called for people to change their ways of thinking towards Judaism and its society which in his own context was oppressive. He wanted people to understand that God is merciful and loving not a punishing and bloodthirsty God. Through his deeds he radicalized the way their religion should be understood, ex. Dining with tax collectors, defending a sinful woman (which was a big scandal for jewish authorities. He caught their attention to the point that they wanted to end him. Being aware of this danger, Jesus risked his life for a greater cause. We did not ask for his death…neither he asked you to recognize his death. But remember Jesus did not die for us but rather he lived for us. And he continues to live in us today through his teachings and examples..
I see a lot of butthurt of comments here. The writer has brought up an interesting point and you people say this constitutes an ‘attack on an ideology”?
Anti-intellectualism. Cognitive dissonance.
You are entitled to freedom of religion, but NOT freedom from criticism.
The author has lied the entire article on the wrong foundation. The statement that no human being asked Jesus to die on the cross for us is the least important thing to talk about and it’s an elementary reason to deny the belief of the Christians. You can never say that you are not responsible for the death of Jesus nearly 2000 years ago. Yes, you could say you didn’t ask for it, but so what? The burden of responsibility does not automatically become weightless the moment you deny to admit it.
How can you be so sure that Jesus’ death has nothing to do with you?
How can anybody be so sure?
And obviously, no human being asked Jesus to die except some Jews and Romans around 2000 years ago. But because Jesus had to die for our sins, we are still accountable.
Simply put, this article gives the readers the most pointless and elementary reason to disqualify the Christian belief.
According to christian belief we carry the original sin by adam and eve by the time we were born. But who said that? The church right? That is THEIR interpretation of what is said in the bible (i dont know the exact words) but what if they were wrong? I believe that they are also people just like us. We are not perfect to interpret something without consulting the author him self right? If we were to inherit that sin, that would make God a douche. Giving us the sin that we didnt even do. Imagine an innocent baby going to hell because the baby died after birth. I call that injustice. Its like torturing an innocent kid for forever because his parents disobeyed their boss. Damn that is too cruel dont you think?
Garrick, I agree that such an obnoxious doctrine should have no place in life, public or otherwise. However, to say that it is the heart of every mainstream/orthodox Christian faith is simply a gross misrepresentation of what Christians truly believe. This wholly-atonement/juridical take on the Passion is a perverse version of orthodox Christian faith, led to it by the Church’s own failure to teach the said faith or simply by their own freedom (impaired natural reason, if you will).
I’d suggest you read closely theology books (and not just shabby commentaries on it like Dawkins who I think never even read a single page of Aquinas). The analogy between an in-depth study of theology on the one hand, and that of astrology, is a false one. Astrology by its very basis, we know to be just utter bullcrap (and if you believe Adorno and company, something that functionally reinforces ideology/mythology/shared fantasy/norms/meanings/discursive formations in society). The problem is a very simple one: those who claim to know it very well so as to be able to attack it (again, like Dawkins) have not read anything on it, like someone making a review/criticism of a film she hasn’t seen, hence making their analyses so shallow and ever-prone to the strawman fallacy. What one is attacking is simply not the one he intends to demolish.
For the substantive part of this comment, I’d use the same piece of Pauline writing you quoted above: without Christ resurrecting, the Christian faith is in vain. If it were just a juridical notion of atonement, Christ dying on the Cross was enough. as the lambs and the bulls of the Old Testament did not have to come back to like for them to be “efficacious” or “salvific”. The Resurrection, then, comes off as just a fancy show tp drive home the point. Even without Resurrection, “mainstream” Christianity would still not be in vain, following the logic of your “mainstream” Christianity.
Now, after two thousand years, if what you’re saying is really a description of the “mainstream” Christian faith, how come it took so long for one to think about that?
Well, Peter Abelard some time during the so-called “Dark Ages” (which weren’t really dark) asked the same question. 🙂
In the Christian East, nobody would even think about that. The Harrowing of Hades (which is THE image of the Resurrection itself, the icon for it) is such a main theological and liturgical thoroughfare that even children who do not know Greek, can sing the Paschal troparion in the original Greek.
While I understand where you’re coming from, and I agree that there’s a problem with religion in the Philippines, your points need to be reflected on further. First, you shouldn’t assume why other people do what they do. You have no idea why your schoolmates were crying. You’re not an omniscient being. It’s quite normal to feel sad when you see someone getting hurt in front of you, it doesn’t mean you feel responsible for what’s happening. However, for my second point I will say that perhaps Christianity is good at persuading its followers to believe that simple “empathy” translates to “guilt”. Those two emotions are quite easily linked. My third point: you may think you know plenty about Catholics or Christians in general, but you ought to be careful. I agree with “Kev” below. If you don’t want anything to do with these people, you can’t judge them. If you think they are wrong, that’s nice, so do I. But you can’t argue with believers using your kind of language. No one will listen except those who already agree with you.
He died for you (not asking it) because He loves us. Yours is the decision whether to believe or not. Whatever happened on the cross will only take effect into your life once you accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior. By not accepting Him, its like He did not die at all. It is your choice kid. John 3:16
“And the blackmail’s not even for something we did!” OK so what about what YOU did?
I don’t think anybody cares if you asked for this or not. Please practice what you preach Mr. Berceo. If you want the CBCP to leave us alone, be the first to be wise in action and do not condemn ideology. Leave them alone. Do not condemn those who you do not wish to have anything to do with. If you continue to do this, you will become no different from the Inquisitors who burned people alive.
*To put it simply: Do not do as the Church did in darker days, when they condemned, executed, and tortured those who did not believe as they did.
I care about what the author of this article thinks. The fact that you read the article and even took the time to comment shows that you care about what the author thinks as well. And in my opinion, peacefully expressing one’s opinion via blog is NOT THE SAME as Inquisitors burning people alive for not believing in a supposedly “loving” god. Just saying.
Are you even reading? The author is simply WRITING his thoughts and you have the gall to compare him to what the church did in the past?
Goodness, the hypocrisy is overwhelming.
There’s a difference between calling out the stupidity of someone’s beliefs from killing someone because of his beliefs.
He is not executing or torturing anyone! He is just experssing his views about a widely held belief.
This author seems to know little of God. Even if he tried quoting some biblical verse, seems not to be reading the entire book. Thats why he has shallow thoughts over Jesus’ suffering on the cross and resurrection.. Yes an ordinary man would say, why would I die for someone I do not know and why would I answer for his crime. A typical human law. Jesus is not a man, He is the Son of God so He will never think what an ordinary man would say or do.
Why do u think people die? This place called earth is not our final settlement. Our body would perish but our soul would live forever.
Dude, did you ever try calling out Name and see the result? If not, then TRY …coz you would get an answer.
Its so alarming a lot of young Filipinos are giving up their faith in God just because they think they know everything and are smarter than Him.
Sorry, but there’s no evidence for the existence of a god.
Yes, there are. You should somehow be aware of that overwhelming evidences. You can start on reading and understanding on the “Theory of Grand Design” and Asimov’s Interpretation of the Bible, which are being used by modern day Scientists. I can help you if you like ([email protected]).
I gave up my faith because I do not know. I do not claim to know. I believe in a supreme being, or creator, or whatever people would like to call it. I believe in that. I do not, however, believe in the practices and the inherent ‘sins’ that I am supposedly born with.
According to the Bible, (which I’ve read willingly, countless times, while I was still of the faith) there are only 2 rules in the new testament.
Love your neighbor and love God.
Bringing in the Biblical claim that we are created of God and in God’s image, then by reasoning; loving one’s neighbor is loving God.
Nowhere does it say that I have to be of the Catholic faith. Nowhere does it say that I have to keep holy the sabbath day, or kiss some statue (which is technically a graven image of God, in reference to the old testament), or praise and worship God (which is old testament and inherently overruled by Christ, the God of the Catholic faith).
If God is better than humans or greater or omniscient (I say ‘if’ because I do not know for sure if God is existing, although I’d prefer to believe God did), and if God created everything, God would not need the approval, praise, worship, or any practice that religion teaches.
It would be to simply take care of what we have because that is all that we have here. Just because Catholics (like my family) believe that there is an afterlife, does not mean that our earthly life has no value at all. I love my family, regardless of my position against religion in general. I am forced into various activities that I have no respect for, and yet I spend time with them doing so. It makes them happy, and they’re the only blood-family I have. It’s what I have here on earth.
According to scripture, again. In heaven, we do not know who is who, and everyone’s souls will just be together in a harmonious kind of lifestyle. I’d like to at least make my family happy here on earth before all ties are separated.
Now, that being said. Who claims to know more or less of God? You? The one who admittedly barely understands the teachings because of the need for you to listen to a ‘homily’ or a lecture given by one who is educated in reading the same book for over 10 years to know what to do? Excuse me, but I’ve read the book, and it doesn’t take 10 years to interpret that all the Bible is doing is attempting to teach people tolerance of one another. If you can’t see that, then you have no right to say what you just said, because that would be hypocrisy.
That being said; who claims to be knowing everything? You who read the Bible every day (if you even do that)? I read the Bible every day, for years as well. You’re the one claiming that we know everything. We claim otherwise. You’re the one claiming that earth is not our final settlement, and that that is justice enough to worship God. You also claim that we must do good to enter heaven and be with God. I claim that I do not know whether this is true or not, but I’d rather make the most of what I have in the not-final settlement for the sake of those here, and when I am with God, thank and worship God then.
You claim that we think we know everything. That is an utter fallacy. We do not know everything, hence we make the most of what we do know and use it to make others happy. Again, that is one of the quintessential teachings of your church. I do not know whether I should do good or bad according to Catholic definitions, however, I know enough to take care of what I have and love on earth, which is (coincidentally, according to Catholic doctrine) an extension/creation of God.
You claim we have shallow thoughts of the resurrection. Did you read the amount of depth, see the amount of effort, and careful wordplay the author had used to create this article? Your response was not even a quarter of the article, and it was simply a blatant dismissal of thought and logically arranged reasoning. Who is shallow, now?
Uhhmm.. dude. Jesus is a man and a God. He is both man and God. Stop being hipocrite dude. The writer is not perfect and so are you and of course the same goes with me. No one is thinking that they are smarter than God they just believe that they can do things without the church. Church is not equal to God. I do believe that there is someone out there watching over us yet I really hate the church. Because church is a representation of how far people can get just to protect the heirarchy and sexism in this world. Church hates Gay people, they will never let a woman be a priest. Fuck it.
On the opposite end, assuming Jesus died for all of my sins, past, present and future, doesn't that give me the license to do all the evil things I can think of?
It's like having a debit card with infinite funds, you can be grateful to the person who gave it to you but you don't have to be nice to them after you get your gift. I wonder if religious but evil people think of it that way.
If this is the way people think, then it clearly shows they don’t understand grace at all. God’s forgiveness is not, and never has been, a license to sin. Take for example, the novel Les Miserables. When Jean Valjean was shown an act of grace, he did not use it to continue doing “evil” things. On the contrary, the grace that was shown him transformed him. That’s what a real understanding of grace–getting something you do not deserve, such as forgiveness or pardon in this case–will do to you. If by claiming “since I am forgiven anyway, I can continue to sin”, then the person misses the entire point of the act of forgiveness, in this case, the death of Christ on the cross. It then becomes, as you say, a “license” to sin, and it becomes quite clear the person never really understood, and it could be argued, the person was never “saved” in the first place. Not for us to judge, but the bible is very clear: “You will know them by their fruits”. Those claiming to be Christians/followers of Christ live lives that prove this.
the culture of not being held accountable for their own mistake makes people immature, dangerously content, and non reflective. all of which leads to mediocrity and counter progressiveness. that's why i grew tired of the media celebrating the people as Filipinos can smile on everything – the basis of which is this thinking.
I agree on this and never could understand as a former catholic how I could be held accountable for someone in a garden and my then being in sin for that. This article sums it up nicely as to how the church uses guilt as a control.
True. Faith it seems to me is acquisition of authority to do the wrong without having to reason about it. It blocks the human brain of it’s ability to question.
I don’t agree. The main reason why I can say that I am a Believer, is because God has answered all my questions. We are all free to ask, those who seek, will find.
AMT
replied:4 months ago
“I don’t agree. The main reason why I can say that I am a Believer, is because God has answered all my questions. We are all free to ask, those who seek, will find.”
Tell me and prove how???