Seeing that this is a site for freethinkers and I am a Non-believer, I get to choose who the cool guy is. Sorry for the long loading time 😀
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one who forms opinions on the basis of reason, independently of tradition, authority, or established belief; one who doubts or denies religious dogma
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[…] Christian vs Non-Believer […]
@ ret – i guess you have not met all the atheists in this site. i believe most of them have good backgrounds in the bible. some were hard core catholics/protestants. others were bible preachers and debaters. i also knew that some were raised in catholic schools and have studied theology. one could not simply say that they hardly knew the bible. in short, they are not idiots. like you, they raise good points too. the only difference is that they have seen both sides of the story.. you, on the other hand, only knew the bible.
if you believe that there is God and he has given you the gift of knowledge, it would have been grateful if you used it according to its capacity to discern.. and not just suppress it by refusing to understand the others' contentions, which prevent you from raising a good point thereafter. Narrow-minds/ignorance prevail over those people who shut their ears while talking and at the same time demanding fairness and justice to be heard.
so before you defend your sacred book to death like i did before, you might want to glance the concept of free-thinking before you start barking again. at least you know what you are talking about and you may not conclude or judge unfairly your friends here.. your GOD would not like that.
I was an atheist before…who rely on human wisdom. I don't refuse to understand the other contentions. It's just a matter of making a stand.
I know this article of mine might have inspired some of you but that guy Ret who commented on this article is using it for his own personal gain. Just check his website
http://www.secretcontents.com
Although I can't do anything about it.
He also has a Facebook page
Thanks freespirit for linking our site.
BTW, sorry if I have to comment differently as you expected people to comment. But I hope you should be ready for any comments – conforming or not conforming. You should know that as a writer. But if you really prefer your readers to make conforming comments to your article – okay. I will make a comment gain.
Just please…don't make false accusations. I make comments here to defend Christians. There were never personal gain in my behalf. What profit for myself can I gain for debating a person like you in this site full of Atheists? I'm sorry to tell you that…if that is your attitude – an accuser, without verification and knowing – I cannot guarantee inspirations in your articles. That's my own opinion. But it can still change if you will show me something better. Thanks again for the link.
Actually i don't need to put any link because people can just click your name on any of your comments here. But i guess it was just made more visible. That's how I found it in the first place.
I have written a new article but the editor has not yet put it up yet.
Okay. Be a responsible article writer.
I read his articles.
How to best out it nicely??
Touchie-feelie new-age horse puke that offers no real solutions.
Yes..I am a newbie in this site. Sorry for not exerting tremendous efforts in finding all the information here in a short period of time. I just thought the old members here can be generous in providing those information to a newbie. It's sad that some members become rude and bad-mouthed when their principles are being contested. But, anyway I have read the about page of the site…and it's nice. Good to know that it's not all about atheism.
Thank you for exchanging ideas.
"Short period of time"?
Dude, let me get this straight – you have the time to write these long replies to freespirit when you first got here, and yet you couldn't spare a minute or two to click and read the "About Us" tab?
"It’s sad that some members become rude and bad-mouthed when their principles are being contested. "
I prefer the term blunt myself. I only speak for myself, but I can tell you that I don't take very kindly to people claiming Christianity "is good" or "This isn't Christianity" based on your apologetics and your interpretation of the bible. That's a valiant effort, but that's not the reality I see.
I base my opinion on hard data, and on the acts that your followers have committed in the name of their faith, as as it was reported in the news sites I visit.
You trying to tell us that that's not how the bible should be understood is irrelevant – people have committed incredibly stupid things in the name of the religion, and instead of condemning them, you're posturing about how we "didn't read the bible" properly.
Okay then, I humbly say sorry for not reading the about page. I just want to tell that the Bible is not to be taken religiously, but spiritually. Thanks.
The whole truth? Believers can not know that because they follow what their godly figure says.
or we may as well say "blinded" by their faith and belief that a supreme god exists and that they must follow and obey the teachings and prophecies
True christians are not just believers – they justify it from their hearts.
"How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” Romans 10:14-15
Ret, a quick bit of trivia:
What's a Christian doing listening to Paul's writings? He's not Jesus.
…And not their heads, sadly.
How can you go deeper into your heart when it will not pass unto your head?
You're not making sense. If anything, you're implying a "argument from emotion" logical fallacy.
Every Christian denomination believe that they are the True Christian. Tell me what Christian denomination is it that you say is the True Christianity?
This food that you are offering to me is tainted with Lies. First, you try to make me look inferior to you so that I will acquiesce to your demands. Then you tell me that the teachings of the Bible are delicious? Being made to feel inferior and immature is not delicious.
When you said "After you have done that – you can believe Him or not" You don't expect me to not believe after because by then it will be too late for me to get away.
I've looked into the 6000 yr old origin of earth. Their reason is that if we believe the Bible to be true then Adam and Eve were the first Humans on earth. Now if we follow the lineage of Adam and Eve to their descendants to the time of Jesus 2 millenia ago into the present, that would make the earth less than 10,000 yrs old. There are a lot of genealogies passages from the Bible to show how many generations passed between one biblical figure to another. That's why they came up with the conclusion that the Earth is 6000-10000 yrs old.
I know that not all will be saved because there are requirements for who God will choose to save. Your are trying to say that everything I did is false because of that minor non-error. I just made use of what there was to work with. It was intentional.
Would you mind if I ask this:
Do you feel like you are really a free spirit? I mean do you really feel free? I'm just curious of your nick name. Anyway these is a site for free thinkers. But which is better, free thinking or disciplined thinking? I'm just curious with your answer.
Thank you.
Ret, "free thinking" as we advertise it here is not literally recklessness or irresponsibility as you may be thinking.
For crying out loud – read our group's bloody description before asking stupid questions like that.
Twin…
Please review the comment. They are questions. I'm nebie here. Can't you just give a brief description. Sorry, but that was not stupid questions.
It is a stupid question, when you're too lazy to check the site for the information you need.
And don't give the "I'm a newb" excuse either – You're a newb, hence hence there is a due diligence expected of you to do your research before firing off.
Why should I answer your question? I sense that every word you uttered and are uttering now is meant as an attack on me. I am your enemy, what do you care? Your motive was to make me an example to the Christians who were able to see this post.
That's why the food you are giving is tainted with your condescending remarks.
Why? Because I don't know your answer to that question. And I want to know. Because I don't want to judge people unreasonably. It seems that you are the one who is accusing me. We are here to exchange ideas – to find out the truth for the benefit of all. Right?
Ret, most of the people here are either former Catholics or Protestants, they found the absurdity of it then became non- believers it is their "faith" in the first place that got them here
True Christian do no believe that the age of the world is 6,000 years old – it's a misinterpretation of some cult trying to claim their Christianity. It is not taught in the Bible. Also, not all non-believers will be saved. I think you should do further research so as to make your assertions accurate. Have you really read all the context of the Bible? Have you understand them all? Have you tried to practice them all? You are like a man, trying to say this food is not delicious and good to the mouth, without tasting it.
Before you refuse to believe in God, know Him first, verify Him, read and understand all the teachings in the Scriptures, then practice them for a certain time. After you have done that – you can believe Him or not. Not believing without knowing and verifying first, is immature.
Ret, I was immersed in Catholic indoctrination from grades 1 to seven, and years 1 to four of my high school life. Then I had another three years or so of mandatory theology classes in college, so I'd like to think I have a pretty decent idea of how the religion I'm coming from works.
Most of us here come from similar backgrounds as Anon states, meaning we have given the due effort of trying to read and understand the bible, and in the end decided, at least in my case, that it was not only out of touch with reality, but that its dogma was doing more harm than good.
And as far as context goes Ret, tell me, how the fuck does one justify the slavery, genocide, and rape of an entire tribe just because you don't like them (Numbers 31)?
Or that it condones slavery in the OT, and doesn't say a damn thing against it in the New Testament? http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm
I was also baptized as a Catholic (without my consent because I'm a baby that day). Many catholic traditions are not Biblical, you will understand that if you will understand the true tone of the Bible. It's a narrow thinking if you will only based Christianity with the Catholic Authority. I'm not wondering why you become an Atheist. Why do you need to study Theology (the study of God)? Why do you need to study the study of God (theology), if you can study God directly?
Are you sure that you have read and fully understood the Bible? Because if you have read and understood it – you will not talk that way. Everyone is justified by his fruits – so as your fruits.
If you have truly read and understand the Bible, then you can answer some of these questions:
1. How to understand the Bible?
2. What is true faith?
3. How to access the grace of God?
4. What are the fruits of Holy Spirit of God?
5. What is true freedom?
If you can answer them, then you know the Bible. But you need to understand them, so you need to give them a try. After that, you may now believe it or not.
It will depend on which interpretation you ask.
You're going to tell me my understanding of the Bible is limited and wrong. A member of another evangelical group will probably tell me I didn't read it properly. Catholics will tell me I'm taking its verses out of context.
The only common factor I see between your understanding and that of others is that you all assert that your interpretation is true, and that the thousands of other interpretations by other parishes, religious leaders are somehow "straying" and will send them to hell.
All done with an almost universal, smug, self-righteous patronizing tone that you think you know what's good for everybody else. You're the latest person in a long line of bible-thumpers that's walked up to me saying that "I don't know the truth."
My answer to you will be the same as I have said to the others:
Your book has been used to justify hate against gays and to defend child molestation. Your leaders are bigoted old coots who carry the stench of hypocrisy and misogyny wherever they speak. You tried to censor media for the simple reason that it's not to your taste. You have used your tired old rhetoric to scare the population out of adopting any meaningful family planning programs.
And now you're going tell me to my face you know better than me?
Fuck you.
You are saying that because you have not fully understood the Bible.
@Ret
"You are saying that because you have not fully understood the Bible."
And there lies the problem. Whose interpretation of the bible?
It's so easy for you to say that, and yet even Christian denominations such as evangelicals, baptists, or the Latter Day Saints all claim that their own interpretation is the only one that's true.
What makes yours any different?
And parroting the "You don't understand the bible" again and again does not merit as an answer either. It's just being a dickhead.
Every Christian denomination believe that they are the True Christian. Tell me what Christian denomination is it that you say is the True Christianity?
This food that you are offering to me is tainted with Lies. First, you try to make me look inferior to you so that I will acquiesce to your demands. Then you tell me that the teachings of the Bible are delicious? Being made to feel inferior and immature is not delicious.
When you said “After you have done that – you can believe Him or not” You don’t expect me to not believe after because by then it will be too late for me to get away.
I’ve looked into the 6000 yr old origin of earth. Their reason is that if we believe the Bible to be true then Adam and Eve were the first Humans on earth. Now if we follow the lineage of Adam and Eve to their descendants to the time of Jesus 2 millenia ago into the present, that would make the earth less than 10,000 yrs old. There are a lot of genealogies passages from the Bible to show how many generations passed between one biblical figure to another. That’s why they came up with the conclusion that the Earth is 6000-10000 yrs old.
I know that not all will be saved because there are requirements for who God will choose to save. Your are trying to say that everything I did is false because of that minor non-error. I just made use of what there was to work with. It was intentional.
True Christians are the ones who follow the teachings of Christ. The one who knows the Bible can verify this. It is not a religious thing, it is a church, not composed of physical building, but composed of God's elect.
I did not make you look inferior, maybe it's the fruit of your work that made you look like that. How can you say that the food I am offering to you is full of lie, do you know the whole truth? And why are you worried to realize it? Are you afraid of the light?
The 6,000-10,000 years of the world are all just interpretations, nowhere in the Bible, it is written. That's the hardest part for human science – because they can't comprehend miracles.
I made that comment in the defense for the real Christians. Have you been labeled your post – Catholic (Protestant) vs non-believer. Maybe I would not have made any comment.
Pardon me if you are not able to communicate to me what you exactly mean because it gets lost on me.
I understand, True Christians go back to the roots of Christianity. And they follow its True meaning. Jesus as the head of the church he established.
I did not make you look inferior, maybe it’s the fruit of your work that made you look like that. //
You were saying to me by your 'questioning' that I never studied the teachings of the Bible. Like Twin-Skies, I studied in a Catholic school. But it's really going to take a lifetime to study the Bible.
I said it was tainted because I see what Christian belief can do to people. I don't want to turn into somebody who talks about nothing else but Jesus and the Bible and that's what makes me worried. And I have a very malleable thinking too. Religious belief is like a program. Your mind and most of the people are programmed with the Christian teachings.
I have read something like, "only when you tell somebody about an idea will they begin to see that it is there." Only Christians will see God in everything that is happening in their lives and the same goes for followers and their Prophets/Gods in other religions. Children are "programmed" by their parents and society. That's where I got the idea for this post. I don't want to be programmed.
Who knows the whole Truth? But I try to know as much of the truth as I can. I try to be a good person
When I was thinking of titles for this post I chose not to use Christian vs Atheist or Christian vs Freethinker. Sometimes I place some deliberate errors for people to see and make them think like in Freethinking. A teacher never gives all the answers. But I'm not perfect.
I'll answer your other reply later.
[…] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Alvin Lim, FilipinoFreethinkers. FilipinoFreethinkers said: New Post: Christian vs Non-Believer https://filipinofreethinkers.org/2010/08/05/christian-vs-non-believer/ […]