In my previous post about the HIV summit, I wrote about my unanswered question (What should the DOH do about the CBCP problem?) and the elephant in the room (Bishop Yniguez, public affairs director of the CBCP). The guys in the faith-based table (particularly the Catholic priest) probably told the bishop about my question, so I was a bit hesitant to do what I did next.
I interviewed the elephant. After some media representatives interviewed him, I thought I’d take advantage of inertia and cut in right after with my trusty camcorder. It paid off. He took a look at my ID and asked about my surname. I told him my grandfather was Turkish. If that’s what he asked me, he must have missed “Filipino Free Thinkers” written below my name.
Anyway, are some highlights:
He was vague about condom use being a mortal sin. Last I checked it still is a mortal sin. But instead of using those words, he said it was a grave matter, which is the same thing.
He said that the Catholic statements against the effectiveness of condoms were supported by scientific surveys and facts.
He said that even if condom use were proven to be effective (by the CBCP “scientists”), if it was opposed to the principles of the Catholic Church, it would still be wrong. Which will always be the case, since condoms are intrinsically evil. (I was surprised he had to think twice about whether this was the case.)
He said that condom use would be OK between a married couple and only if one of the spouses had HIV or AIDS. Now here he is going against the official Catholic stance that condom use is intrinsically evil. Maybe there is hope. (Jail the Pope? Sorry.)
He said that half-Catholics, those who disagree with the Church’s position on matters such as condom use, “are not Catholics.” Though this would probably be bad for publicity, and as public affairs director, he knew better. So…
He said that Catholics who do not agree with the Church can still call themselves Catholic. But they would be erring Catholics.
I didn’t get to prepare, so now I have a lot of tougher questions I wish I’d asked. But I guess it’s good enough when you get a bishop to say, “Nadali mo ako dun a.”
I remember during the infamous GMA administration, her presidential spokesmen were stumbling all over the place, dishing out contradictory statements, making themselves look like fools! Why? Cause they were trying to defend something (the president's illegal actions and immoral statements) that was indeed difficult to defend.
No difference now with the pro-life, priests, bishops and the CBCP. Desperate, they now resort to lies, illogical statements, generalizations, and, lately, threats! how ironic indeed…
These bishops and priests are correct! They are against the use of condom because based on their experience, they have proven that condoms lessen the satisfaction derived from sex! Harharhar
LOL. Nice one paparazzi Red!
Ganyan na talaga sila since then, laging play-safe sa mga sagot nila – kaya sometimes contradicted. Intimidating lang sila sometimes because may ipinapakita silang aura of power, which is natural sa isang taong nagmamarunong and hindi na introspectively recipient sa iba't ibang questions. Hindi na nga essential yung blessing nila sa tao eh, but a matter of hierarchy and superior respect – tignan mo mga kaibigan nila mga kasing pretentious din nila (tropang plastik). They look nice to people, … parang Stalin na naka-depict sa propaganda art.
Stalin is the true God, the priests are heretic, unless they are liberation theologians who believe in Enver Hoxha and Mao-Tse-Tung.
"He said that half-Catholics, those who disagree with the Church’s position on matters such as condom use, “are not Catholics.”"
— would this mean that majority of filipinos are not "catholics"?
i guess i was not a catholic since the age of….
a lot of people I know who are "catholic" are actually protestant. when they tell about their beliefs, i sometimes say they're more protestant than catholic. some people say we shouldn't fault catholicism too much because its not perfect, but when you ask them what they don't like about catholicism, they are just similar to what protestants protest about catholicism. i told a friend once "stop claiming to be catholic already, you are clearly protestant." i offered to introduce him to friends of mine who are protestants and who are very friendly people but he said he doesn't want to leave the catholic faith, he believes in god, and the denomination doesn't matter — yeah right, tell that to the protestants. there are really a lot of hypocrite catholics out there. hey i'm against both catholic and protestant, but the guy believes what he believes and he ain't catholic!
to add, there are actually a lot of "Christians" i know who are "practicing" deists.
Plus, let us not forget the fact that "Catholicism" in the Philippines has pagan elements. They should have been ejected as heathens by the church decades ago if the clergy was really consistent with their teachings. It's obvious thay can't eject almost 100% of their followers in a country that they have hegemony when it comes to pushing their social agenda.
Catholic, Protestant. Both Christian, and both faiths see the other as "untrue" paths to their god.
Good grief. Even the format wars was less dramatic than that 🙁
"He said that Catholics who do not agree with the Church can still call themselves Catholic. But they would be erring Catholics. "
By his logic, doesn't that mean that the pope, who has been linked to a California sex abuse case in 1985, is not a "true Catholic," and should not be taken seriously.
And if the same can be said of several other bishops who have been found guilty of turning a blind eye to these cases, then they're not true Catholics either. If that's the case, shouldn't Catholics NOT be listening to people who are obviously erring believers?
"He said that even if condom use were proven to be effective (by the CBCP “scientists”), if it was opposed to the principles of the Catholic Church, it would still be wrong. Which will always be the case, since condoms are intrinsically evil. (I was surprised he had to think twice about whether this was the case.)"
So let me get this straight: even if using a condom can save a life or prevent another from enduring a lifetime of potential misery from an unwanted pregnancy, despite the fact that not using it can lead to more emotional and physical harm, they will still be against it for the simple notion that it's "inherently wrong?"
Raping children is inherently wrong. Hiding these cases for decades without reporting incidents to the police is inherently wrong. Trying to hide the offenders by circulating them around other parishes while still allowing them close contact with children is also inherently wrong.
Pardon the French Red, but from where I'm standing, the Bishop is just spouting more of the same bullshit dogma, candy-coated with PC words so as to try not to look so repulsive.
The best way to get people to take poison is by putting something sweet and tasty around it.
Yum Yum, father
sweet is the taste of your…
you know, the catholic faith isn't that cruel (in that sense). like in the matters of health. like condom… if the partner has hiv then they can forgive condom use. sunday masses… if you are sick you are not required to attend. fasting… one time i was sick my mom made me eat a lot and told me not to fast even though it was holy week. she just told me to pray a lot. some priests also tell me these. they understand the limitations of humans and health is also priority. come on…. catholicism isn't that great, but i don't think it's as evil as some of you think it is.
That's why I draw the line between hating Catholicism, and Catholics.
Furthermore why aren't Catholics voicing outrage when its religious leaders get away with scalding us with the burning stupidity of their "condoms are evil" rhetoric?
I'd like to think that most Catholics don't follow this bishop's sentiments either, that they know better based on their personal experience with reality.
The problem is that their silence is seen as some sort of compliance to this man's lies.
Awh, he looks like such a nice guy.
so are they all…all… honorable men…
(Marc Anthony of Brutus, W. Shakespeare)
It's probably the sheep's clothing 😉
"Last I checked it still is a mortal sin. But instead of using those words, he said it was a grave matter, which is the same thing."
Well played.
Actually, the way he answered it is consistent with the Catholic Church's stand on condoms in general. From their strong stance of saying it is intrinsically evil and worthy of Hellfire, to not mentioning its status as a mortal sin. But when making statements about it, the more recent popes have referred to the same document condemning condom use as a mortal sin, so their stance, however subtle, is still the same. Not to mention they've made no statements to the contrary.
Consistent in its inconsistency, ah, the mystery and paradox that is the Catholic Church! Now I understand.
this is wonderful! good job!
Thanks! And thanks din sa paghiram ng Modern Warfare 2 (I'm returning it to Liz on Sunday) 🙂
Ryan Tani: So malaki yung possibility na pumunta sa hell pagka hindi mo kinonfess yung…
Bishop Yniguez: Hindi kasi…alam mo naman yung pagiging sin, no? For a thing to be sin there is the subjective element. Now generally we're just speaking about the objective aspect of it, that in itself that is how the Catholic Church…
Ryan Tani: Intrinsically evil…
Bishop Yniguez: Ah…I don't know if you can say 'intrinsically evil'…but what you can say is that it is…ahhh…in its concept…connected with something that is against the teachings of the church, which is the use of man-made elements for contraception.
You made a bishop hesitate in stating the supposedly absolute stand of the Church! You're going to hell, Ryan Tani!!!
So I guess if they don't condem pedo-priests, it's not evil.
Meh. Hypocrites. Charlatans. Monsters. If there is a hell, I do hope they go there.
Last time I read the Bible, heaven sounded like a pretty boring place. In fact, to me it sounds a lot like hell (an eternity of doing nothing, an eternity with the most boring and insufferable people on planet earth, an eternity without sex, drugs and rock n' roll). I hope they go there.
Sitting on a white cloud and staring at an infinite number of other white clouds for all eternity…
Oh, you also get to play the harp all day. But only religious songs are allowed.
"Sitting on a white cloud and staring at an infinite number of other white clouds for all eternity…" Sounds like you've been there before, Jong. Hehe.
Nietzsche said it well when he said, "In heaven, all the interesting people are missing."
Yeah. And to think, the Beatles won't be there. Mozart too.
Don Moen for all eternity? I don't even want to think about it.
"You’re going to hell, Ryan Tani!!!"
See you there! 😀
That's just Cardinal Yniguez being diplomatic in his answer.
And yes I can call him cardinal because Ryan already promoted him to Archbishop.
so are they all honorable men…
(Marc Anthony of Brutus and the Senate; The Tragedy of Julius Ceasar)
O judgment! thou art fled to brutish beasts,
And men have lost their reason ~ Antony, Scene ii
A memorable Julius Caesar quote indeed
Nice interview! Saan yan? At anong event yan?
Thanks! 🙂 Sa HIV Summit (http://www.pnac.org.ph/index.php?page=hiv-summit-2010)