What is time? Does it exist beyond the beginning and end of our universe? From the point of view of the universe there was no time ‘before’ it expanded from a singularity and there will be no time ‘after’ it collapses back into a singularity (that is, if it collapses back). But what about from a hypothetical point of view ‘outside’ the universe? Is there ‘time beyond time’? Ah, things too heavy to ponder on Halloween. How about we set that aside for now and shift to something more within our purview. Let’s talk about life – and ‘time beyond life’.
About 14 billion years ago, time began along with the Big Bang. That means we never existed for 14 billion years as far as the universe is concerned. We were practically dead. But then we are born and we live. And at the end of our lives we will become exactly what we were for the past 14 billion years: non-existent. Or will we?
While the term universe is often confused with space, it actually means space and time or the totality of space and time from the Big Bang to whatever scenario the universe ends into. The universe isn’t just the entire space at this very moment in time; it is the entire space for all the time it exists (note the present tense exists – the universe is present at every minute of its life). And so even after we die, as far as the universe is concerned we will always exist at a certain point in time and space. Points actually, one point for every infinitesimal fraction of every second of our lives.
But then the point is, as far as we are concerned we cease to exist after we die, unless there is life after death. But if there is none, then those we leave behind – our surviving families, friends, and those whose lives we’ve touched – their memories of us will be the only witnesses to our existence. And after they too will all be gone, only the universe will have a record that we once lived.
And if the universe would one day cease to exist, I wonder if there is something beyond to observe all the events from the universe’s birth to its death, capturing the universe’s life and every life it supported – and how each of those lives struggled for survival, evolved, and lived; each joy and each suffering, each triumph and each defeat – immortalizing everything in a ‘time beyond time’.
The most real feel of time “the present” is infinitesimal. It cannot be measured. Measurement of time is mostly an afterthought. Time also has similarity to recording devices where “the present” resembles the sharp recording point like laser and past is comparable to the recorded material while future is the unrecorded portion. In this way past is just a memory. Similar thoughts were expressed by Mc Taggart when he described the similarity between written history and stories in their time characteristics suggesting that past is just like recorded material.
These workarounds better have something to do with us or information about us 'crossing over' to another universe, because like I said earlier, no matter what the final state of our universe will be – big crunch, big freeze, big rip with ω = -1.5, etc. – all our memories in starlight, thinly stretched as they already are, are at risk of being totally erased as if they never happened at all.
@innerminds
We are not without hope/possibility of "salvation". Assuming we don't destroy or wipe ourselves off this planet due to something stupid we ourselves caused, or due to some low probability but high impact disaster like a meteor crash, we should be able to create workarounds for this dilemma. Some of these workarounds I've outlined above. They may seem science fiction for now, but not so in several hundreds or thousands of years.
@innerminds
Those are actually different things I think.
First, I'm not even sure there is a maximum or a limit to what entropy or the total disorder in our universe can achieve. In fact, I'm more inclined to think, just as our universe will probably keep on expanding, that entropy will continue to increase indefinitely. That is of course, our current purview, since we know nothing that violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics so far.
Secondly, photons can surely "survive" and keep on traveling in the cosmos, unless, like I mentioned, there are external forces such as other similar particles collide with them or absorb them, such as that in radiation. They are not affected by increase in entropy, again, so long as they don't violate the 2nd law.
Thirdly, the point where no more motion can be sustained, even at the atomic level, what is known as absolute zero, is hardly achievable I think. The temperature would only be close/approximate to absolute zero i.e. zero Kelvin, but not equal to it. Hence there will still be motion, and most probably this will include photons.
Lastly, photons will survive, but most probably not the information which they carry with them, as there will come a region in the cosmos where this information can no longer be retrieved due to too much "stretching". That's why I commented earlier/above on how we can possibly prolong the survivability of our messages and transmissions, which partly document our existence.
Because it appears that no matter what the final state of our universe will be – big crunch, big freeze, big rip with ω = -1.5, etc. – all our memories in starlight, thinly stretched as they already are, are at risk of being totally erased as if they never happened at all.
Sorry I'm not so good with cosmological terms – I realized by 'total entropy' I actually meant the 'maximum entropy' in the heat death of the universe where there will be no thermodynamic free energy to sustain motion. Can photons survive this state? Or more precisely, can they survive in such a way that the bits of history they carry are still reflected no matter how 'stretched out'?
@f241vc15: Thanks! Now you've satisfied my question. 🙂 And your last paragraph sounds like good news, in a way answering the last paragraph of my article:
"And if the universe would one day cease to exist, I wonder if there is something beyond to observe all the events from the universe’s birth to its death, capturing the universe’s life and every life it supported – and how each of those lives struggled for survival, evolved, and lived; each joy and each suffering, each triumph and each defeat – immortalizing everything in a ‘time beyond time’."
@innerminds
Even if max. entropy is not achieved, as I mentioned before, there will come a time and region in our universe when the information from light is barely recognizable as information.
If however, max. entropy is reached i.e. asymptotic/approaching absolute zero, then it's quite likely that information again in light will be lost.
But these scenarios are far, far into the future, millions to billions of years. By which time we would have probably found, as I've mentioned, workarounds regarding this dilemma. Or we would have crossed-over to parallel universes or someone from other parallel universes would come for us/the information.
@innerminds
If ω = -1.5, the answer will be no. Because in that scenario, atoms will be destroyed. Uh, according to Wikipedia.
@Sathepine: Thanks for the compliment. 🙂
@f241vc15/Sathepine: Can photons survive a Big Rip in such a way that they still reflect the bits of history they carry no matter how thinly 'stretched'? 🙂
Just a passing note:
Aside from the Big Crunch, and the Big Freeze, there's also the Big Rip – which has something to do with dark energy (not discussed in this post, but I think, personally, it's a significant issue when it comes to the universe or the Big Bang theory)
Interesting article, by the way. Thought-provoking, I would say.
I see. 🙂 My question is, IF the universe reaches the possible albeit less likely state of maximum entropy, can photons survive in such a way that the bits of history they carry are still reflected no matter how ’stretched out’?
Okay let me clarify that. If you check the last two parts of the Wikipedia page on where I think you got your quote (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe#Current_status), there is obviously more than one view on our universe's fate. Which one is more correct we do not yet know. But scientists are more sure at present that our universe will continue to keep on expanding indefinitely. Whether it will reach/approach maximum entropy or increase its entropy forever is yet to be determined.
Mejor claro? 🙂
In your first comment you said that "the more preferred fate of the universe is something close to a heat death or the big freeze."
Wikipedia says:
"The heat death is a possible final state of the universe, in which it has "run down" to a state of no thermodynamic free energy to sustain motion or life. In physical terms, it has reached maximum entropy."
And now you're saying that you're "more inclined to think, just as our universe will probably keep on expanding, that entropy will continue to increase indefinitely."
Care to clear my confusion? 🙂
@innerminds
If by total entropy you mean that which relates to the 2nd law of Thermodynamics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics), yes they will "survive". By this I mean that they will continue to be as they are, and that this does not violate the 2nd law. The total entropy of our universe therefore either remains constant, or keeps on increasing, perhaps indefinitely.
You mentioned that "photons do not decay in vacuum without external interference." My question: Would photons survive total entropy?
@innerminds
If we take the "heat death" or "Big freeze" end of the Universe, obviously everything will decay into their constituent parts i.e. space dust and more fundamentally, Hydrogen atoms. If you take the "big crunch", although most scientists are partial to the former 2, obviously barely nothing, even at the atomic level, will survive a singularity.
As for the memories, they will be "encapsulated" so to speak, in light, and sent to the farthest reaches of the Universe, since light or more specifically, photons do not decay in vacuum without external interference.
Currently however scientists, especially the ones partial to string and M-theory which are the leading theories for the theory of everything, don't call it universe anymore. Instead, it is what is now known as a multiverse, or a collection of countless universes of which ours is but one only among others.
Regarding the light after/during heat death/big freeze, that's an interesting question. Light/photons, as I mentioned above, do not "cease to exist" without any external cause/factor. You'd be a little happier to realize that radio, like light, is an electromagnetic (EM) wave as well, so our radio and tv programs, which partly document are existence and history, will travel along with reflected light. But as you've probably read in my article, there comes a point/region in space where the light is so "stretched" (think of it as a wave) that it is hardly likely to reconstruct the original message/image/information.
One way to further "extend" our information's "immortality" is create better encoding/transmission schemes when transmitting them. This could be done via using different wavelengths of the EM spectrum, or duplication of the encoded/transmitted information. An analogy of this would be the Indian smoke signal. It's quite easy to lose the information since a breeze can ruin the smoke message. But when the message is placed inside a plastic/glass/metal bottle/container, the message can survive longer. In this case, our history and information can be extended further. And this is no science fiction mind you. It can be done sooner than later. 🙂
The last paragraph was neither meant to be rhetoric nor poetic, but rather as a simple genuine question on what would happen to all the events in history if the universe comes to an end. Would all these be erased as if they didn't happen at all? I wasn't even implying a deity, but just something – anything – that keeps a record that we once lived even if the universe itself ceases to exist.
As for 'time beyond time', I know it's laced with semantic problems that's why I put quotation marks, meaning it shouldn't be taken literally.
I had already read a few weeks ago your article about how starlight somehow carries our memories. I agree with this. However, starlight would also cease to exist after a heat death of the universe, wouldn't it?
Hi innerminds
I'm not sure if your last paragraph was meant to be poetic, rhetoric or both, but from the currently and generally accepted view of cosmology (which is concerned mainly with the physics of the universe) the universe will not end back into a singularity or what is known as "The Big Crunch". Instead, the more preferred fate of the universe is something close to a "heat death" or "the big freeze". Google and Wikipedia can help you with those. Current findings seem to suggest that the universe will continue to expand, so it won't end in another singularity.
As for something else capturing the birth and death of our universe, this sounds sci-fi-ish but one possibility are beings from another dimension crossing over and observing/visiting us. I think that's more plausible and way cooler than an almighty deity.
Regarding what goes on with our lives, memories, and so on, after we die, I'd invite you to read my past post: http://f241vc15.wordpress.com/2008/09/16/seculari…
Regarding 'time beyond time', that's a tricky one, and laced with semantic problems. Usually physicists define 'time' as beginning in the Big Bang, created along with 'space'. Time and space in this case go hand-in-hand, like electricity and magnetism. So if there was another type of 'time' outside our own, then there would probably have to be another type of 'space', something like hyperspace.