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	<title>Filipino Freethinkers &#187; Judas</title>
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	<link>http://filipinofreethinkers.org</link>
	<description>A fellowship of atheists, agnostics, deists, humanists, skeptics, and freethinkers in the Philippines and around the world.</description>
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		<title>Heaven On Their Minds</title>
		<link>http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2010/04/05/heaven-on-their-minds/</link>
		<comments>http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2010/04/05/heaven-on-their-minds/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Apr 2010 22:40:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Jong Atmosfera</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus Christ Superstar]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Judas]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=3927</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In Andrew Lloyd Webber's rock opera Jesus Christ Superstar, Judas sings Heaven On Their Minds, expressing his concern about how Jesus' influence was getting dangerously out of hand. With a hindsight of 2000 years, let us look at how Judas' forewarning fared over the centuries.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Andrew Lloyd Webber&#8217;s rock opera <em>Jesus Christ Superstar</em>, Judas sings <em>Heaven On Their Minds</em>, expressing his concern about how Jesus&#8217; influence was getting dangerously out of hand. With a hindsight of 2000 years, let us look at how Judas&#8217; forewarning fared over the centuries.</p>
<p><a href="http://filipinofreethinkers.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/heaven-on-their-minds.jpg"><img class="alignright size-medium wp-image-3931" src="http://filipinofreethinkers.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/heaven-on-their-minds-300x245.jpg" alt="" width="300" height="245" /></a></p>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">My mind is clearer now</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">At last</p>
<address>All too well</address>
<address>I can see</address>
<address>Where we all</address>
<address>Soon will be</address>
<address>If you strip away</address>
<address>The myth</address>
<address>From the man</address>
<address>You will see</address>
<address>Where we all</address>
<address>Soon will be</address>
</address>
<address style="padding-left: 30px;"></address>
<address><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></address>
<address><span style="font-style: normal;"></p>
<address><span style="font-style: normal;">Over the next 2000 years we&#8217;ve seen just where Jesus&#8217; disciples have been &#8211; all over the globe conquering entire nations. Most of their followers haven&#8217;t stripped the myth from the man, and the new leaders wanted to keep it that way.</span></address>
<address><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></address>
<address> </address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Jesus!</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">You&#8217;ve started to believe</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">The things they say of you</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">You really do believe</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">This talk of God is true</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">And all the good you&#8217;ve done</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Will soon be swept away</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">You&#8217;ve begun to matter more</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Than the things you say</address>
<address> </address>
<address> </address>
<address> </address>
<address> </address>
<address><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span><br />
<span style="font-style: normal;">If Jesus really did exist, it would not be impossible for his fans&#8217; delusion to also get into his head. After all, he was only human. Other humans even took after him, but while most of us readily dismiss these modern-day messiahs as frauds, we do not apply the same skepticism to someone who claimed as such 2000 years ago.<span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></span></address>
<p><em> </em></p>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Listen Jesus</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">I don&#8217;t like what I see</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">All I ask is that you listen to me</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">And remember</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">I&#8217;ve been your right hand man all along</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">You have set them all on fire</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">They think they&#8217;ve found the new Messiah</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">And they&#8217;ll hurt you when they find they&#8217;re wrong</address>
<address><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></address>
<p>Unfortunately, most of them never found out they were wrong. And the ones they hurt were those who would not acknowledge their beliefs.<em> </em></p>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">I remember when this whole thing began</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">No talk of God then, we called you a man</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">And believe me</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">My admiration for you hasn&#8217;t died</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">But every word you say today</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Gets twisted &#8217;round some other way</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">And they&#8217;ll hurt you if they think you&#8217;ve lied</address>
<address><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></address>
<p>It got twisted so badly that countless people got killed because of a lie. The problem with Jesus&#8217; teachings is that he never wrote them down himself. It was always his disciples who wrote, &#8220;Jesus said&#8230;&#8221;. That itself is already hearsay. Compound that with the fact that there were no printing presses at that time, so stories were passed on verbally or written manually from generation to generation. If Jesus really did exist, we cannot know for sure if those red-letter passages in the Bible were really spoken by him.<em> </em></p>
<p><em> </em></p>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Nazareth&#8217;s most famous son</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Should have stayed a great unknown</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Like his father carving wood</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">He&#8217;d have made good</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Tables, chairs and oaken chests</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Would have suited Jesus best</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">He&#8217;d have caused nobody harm</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">No one alarm</address>
<address><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></address>
<address> </address>
<p>And instead of building churches, we would be building shelters for the homeless. No trees would have been sacrificed to house a deity believed to have created those trees.<em> </em></p>
<p><em> </em></p>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Listen Jesus, do you care for your race?</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Don&#8217;t you see we must keep in our place?</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">We are occupied</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Have you forgotten how put down we are?</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">I am frightened by the crowd</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">For we are getting much too loud</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">And they&#8217;ll crush us if we go too far</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">If we go too far</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;"><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></address>
<p>If Judas were alive today, he would probably have said, &#8220;Listen Jesus, do you care for the world, don&#8217;t you see into war it&#8217;s been hurled? We have occupied, have you forgotten how influential we are!&#8221;<em> </em></p>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Listen Jesus to the warning I give</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Please remember that I want us to live</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">But it&#8217;s sad to see our chances weakening with ev&#8217;ry hour</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">All your followers are blind</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Too much heaven on their minds</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">It was beautiful, but now it&#8217;s sour</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Yes it’s all</address>
<address style="padding-left: 60px;">Gone sour</address>
<p></span></address>
<address>
<address><span style="color: #ffffff;">.</span></address>
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</address>
<div id="crp_related"><h3>Related Posts:</h3><ul><li><a href="http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2010/12/11/a-nonbelievers-thanksgiving-poem/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">A Nonbeliever&#039;s Thanksgiving Poem</a></li><li><a href="http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2010/04/22/fundie-paradise/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Fundie Paradise</a></li><li><a href="http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2011/01/26/for-the-state-to-kill-reflectively/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">For the State to kill reflectively</a></li><li><a href="http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2010/03/30/power-and-addiction/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Power and Addiction</a></li><li><a href="http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2010/09/04/new-beginning/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">New Beginning</a></li></ul></div>]]></content:encoded>
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		</item>
		<item>
		<title>Hang Him High</title>
		<link>http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/12/27/hang-him-high/</link>
		<comments>http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/12/27/hang-him-high/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Dec 2009 04:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Pinoy Atheist</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[bible]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Christianity]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Judas]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=2272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[How did Judas die, by hanging or falling down?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-2273" src="http://filipinofreethinkers.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/James_Tissot_Judas_Hangs_Himself_300-150x150.jpg" alt="James_Tissot_Judas_Hangs_Himself_300" width="150" height="150" />The Judas story conflict exists because the fourth century editors who decided which writings should be part of the Bible didn&#8217;t worry about whether one author&#8217;s story conflicted with another.Those who wrote Matthew says that Judas hanged himself (<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27%3A1-5&amp;version=NIV">Matthew 27:1-5</a> and <a href="http://bible.logos.com/passage/nasb/Matt.%2027.3-8#ref=Mt%2027%3A3%E2%80%938%2Chi%3DMt%2027%3A3-Mt%2027%3A8&amp;ver=NASB">Matthew 27:3-8</a>), while<br />
those who wrote Acts says that he fell and his guts spilled out (<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+1%3A16-19&amp;version=KJV">Acts 1:16-19</a>).</p>
<p>Now let us see Michelle Arnold&#8217;s ( Apologistng Catholic Answers Forum:) answer to the problem.He said, <em>&#8220;There are two possible ways to reconcile the verses: Luke&#8217;s<br />
purpose in Acts may have been simply to report what Peter<br />
said at a point in time when the apostles&#8217; information on Judas&#8217;s<br />
death may well have been sketchy. After some of the Temple priests<br />
converted (cf. Acts 6:7), they may have given further details on<br />
Judas&#8217;s death that were later incorporated into the Gospel accounts.&#8221; </em></p>
<p>Mr. Arnold continues, <em>&#8220;It is also possible that after Judas hanged<br />
himself the rope broke<br />
and he fell onto rocks that disemboweled him postmortem. Matthew&#8217;s<br />
emphasis then would have been Judas&#8217;s actions in taking his own<br />
life, while Peter&#8217;s emphasis was on what happened to him after his<br />
suicide.&#8221; </em></p>
<p>Yet other Christians concluded: No. Both accounts are true. Apparently Judas first hanged himself. Then, at some point, the rope either broke or loosened so that his body slipped from it and fell to the rocks below and burst open. (Some have suggested that Judas didn&#8217;t do a very good job of tying the noose.) Neither account alone is complete. Taken together, we have a full picture of what happened to Judas. (For similar assumptions, see: <a href="http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/qjudasdie.html">Answers to Common Questions </a>,<a href="http://www.tektonics.org/gk/judasdeath.html">Whither the Traitor?</a> and <a href="http://www.carm.org/bible-difficulties/matthew-mark/how-did-judas-die-hanging-or-falling-down">CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS &amp; RESEARCH MINISTRY </a>)</p>
<p>Now, maybe it&#8217;s better that we use a little common sense here? It should be noted that Judas fell headlong, meaning head first. So, an explanation is needed as to why Judas&#8217; body rotated 180 degrees upon the rope breaking. Judas could have hung himself from a tree branch that protruded over a cliff in order to all the fall sufficient distance so that his body could flip, but that seems strange, First, why hang yourself to a tree with a branch that is portruding to a cliff as it would not have contributed to the hanging unless Judas meant for the rope to break? In fact it would have made it needlessly difficult as Judas would have had to climb out onto the tree to reach the protruding branch and tie the rope on that brance.</p>
<p>Now, did Judas fell and hit another such as another tree branch, that caused his body to flip? This is possible, but it would make more sense for Judas to simply choose the lowest branch that he could find that was sufficiently high. A branch with a branch underneath it would have only gotten in the way.</p>
<p>Various assumptions can be made about the organization of Matthew and Acts in order to justify placing the hanging part of the death in Matthew and the falling part of the death in Acts. Perhaps Matthew preferred to talk things in the air whereas Acts preferred to talk about things on the ground. Such assumptions seem arbitrary and contrived unless they are vindicated by the rest of the text.</p>
<p>Regardless of what is assumed about the organization of Matthew and Acts Judas died only once. Either Judas died when he hung himself and then later fell, or he was still alive when he fell and died when he hit the ground. In either case either Matthew or Acts neglected to mention how Judas actually died. Appeals to the idea that the authors of Matthew and Acts each knew what the other would write and wished to not be redundant are difficult to defend in light of the amount of repeated material in the rest of the New Testament; particularly the synoptic gospels.</p>
<p>There are other contradictions beside those stated above:</p>
<p>In Matthew, Judas threw away the money to the priests before<br />
dying, then he went to hang himself. After that, the priests bought<br />
a field. In Acts, Judas used the money himself to buy a field.</p>
<p>Let me add an additional item of interest. In <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+27%3A9-10&amp;version=NASB">Matt. 27:9-10</a>, it is asserted that the prophet Jeremy (Jeremiah) uttered a prophecy regarding Judas, but no such statement is found in the book of Jeremiah. Instead, a similar statement is found in the book of <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Zechariah+11%3A12-13&amp;version=NIV">Zech. 11:12,13</a>. So did Jesus erred?</p>
<p>So whether those who wrote Matthew recorded their own fiction, or Acts recorded their own fiction, we will never know.</p>
<div id="crp_related"><h3>Related Posts:</h3><ul><li><a href="http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/08/21/judas-the-traitor/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Judas, the Traitor?</a></li><li><a href="http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/10/21/jesus-and-the-fig-tree/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Jesus and the Fig Tree</a></li><li><a href="http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2010/04/04/christ-is-risen%e2%80%a6/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">Christ is Risen…?</a></li><li><a href="http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2010/07/24/the-bible-in-a-skeptic%e2%80%99s-eye-part-2/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">The Bible in a Skeptic’s Eye (Part 2)</a></li><li><a href="http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2010/01/17/the-black-jesus-the-black-nazarene/" rel="bookmark" class="crp_title">The Black Jesus (The Black Nazarene)</a></li></ul></div>]]></content:encoded>
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