Comments on: The Secular Sins of PGMA http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/12/05/the-secular-sins-of-pgma/ A fellowship of atheists, agnostics, deists, humanists, skeptics, and freethinkers in the Philippines and around the world. Tue, 22 May 2012 11:29:11 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Paolo http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/12/05/the-secular-sins-of-pgma/comment-page-1/#comment-2073 Paolo Thu, 22 Jul 2010 23:32:09 +0000 http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1975#comment-2073 Are you Anti-Gloria or Anti-Catholic? For I have to say, your claims are quite unfair since like what you've said, an overwhelming majority of Filipinos are Catholic and also, if you are Catholic--a faithful, practicing one--won't you be happy with this? Yes, I agree with some of your points such as the removal of secular education from public schools, although any religion should be allowed to preach on those schools. But with some of your points like your comment on GMA's 2007 SONA about citing God, so you say that God in general should also be banned? And also, GMA's actions of honoring different religions such as her own Roman Catholicism, Islam and the Iglesia Ni Cristo just shows that she is being fair. In relation her policies on death penalty, I can hardly think of any religion aside from Islam existing in the Philippines that allows death penalty so why bother even if she says her ideas are inspired by a pope? As for population control issues especially artificial family planning, it's a Catholic thing but you have to admit that most of us are Catholics and are bound to follow its rules, and also, other religions are not that ignored because artificially family planning is not disallowed. Personally, I don't agree with it and if you are Catholic, you'd also better not to. But if you're not, just think that natural family planning deserves as much attention and knowledge by the people as the artificial method. Are you Anti-Gloria or Anti-Catholic? For I have to say, your claims are quite unfair since like what you've said, an overwhelming majority of Filipinos are Catholic and also, if you are Catholic–a faithful, practicing one–won't you be happy with this? Yes, I agree with some of your points such as the removal of secular education from public schools, although any religion should be allowed to preach on those schools. But with some of your points like your comment on GMA's 2007 SONA about citing God, so you say that God in general should also be banned? And also, GMA's actions of honoring different religions such as her own Roman Catholicism, Islam and the Iglesia Ni Cristo just shows that she is being fair. In relation her policies on death penalty, I can hardly think of any religion aside from Islam existing in the Philippines that allows death penalty so why bother even if she says her ideas are inspired by a pope? As for population control issues especially artificial family planning, it's a Catholic thing but you have to admit that most of us are Catholics and are bound to follow its rules, and also, other religions are not that ignored because artificially family planning is not disallowed. Personally, I don't agree with it and if you are Catholic, you'd also better not to. But if you're not, just think that natural family planning deserves as much attention and knowledge by the people as the artificial method.

]]> By: rhey seuss http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/12/05/the-secular-sins-of-pgma/comment-page-1/#comment-2072 rhey seuss Mon, 14 Dec 2009 08:33:47 +0000 http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1975#comment-2072 E ito lang e: ... 4. An end to the exemption from taxes of all religious institutions and activities. All income and property must be duly recorded and reported to the BIR and LGUs, at bayaran nyo ang karampatang buwis! Mga buwis-it! E ito lang e:

… 4. An end to the exemption from taxes of all religious institutions and activities. All income and property must be duly recorded and reported to the BIR and LGUs, at bayaran nyo ang karampatang buwis! Mga buwis-it!

]]> By: ramonster http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/12/05/the-secular-sins-of-pgma/comment-page-1/#comment-2071 ramonster Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:27:58 +0000 http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1975#comment-2071 Geri: The holiday discussions are a very complicated subject to which i am willing to discuss more. However, please note that though i am very much anti-religion, my practical approach for a solution would be a pluralist one. And though you have known me as much of a radical anti-statist, i will be giving state-based solutions for the purpose of discussion and practicality (syempre disclaimer muna baka isipin ninyo lumalabnaw na ako). An idea i would like to push forward would be treating it like leaves or i would call it Holiday Credits. All employees of a company or government institution should be given the same amount of credits to be consumed on their most revered holiday. So if the RCs and the Protestant sects want to celebrate Christmas, then they can consume most of it there. Same as the Moslems for Ramadan. For the others i don't really know and i don't care, but they now have the freedom to celebrate it by using their leave credits. You can use it to celebrate Flying Spaghetti Monster day or whatever. I'll use it for comic book days, orgy days, april fools day, and halloween And about "leaders investment for political support", i agree. But as much as i want to attack it, as a student of politics i just treat it as manifestation of Realpolitik. It all boils down to power, and not religion. If i am an atheist but still a politician who want to retain power, i would still consider using these tactics, because they are very effective. Geri: The holiday discussions are a very complicated subject to which i am willing to discuss more. However, please note that though i am very much anti-religion, my practical approach for a solution would be a pluralist one. And though you have known me as much of a radical anti-statist, i will be giving state-based solutions for the purpose of discussion and practicality (syempre disclaimer muna baka isipin ninyo lumalabnaw na ako).

An idea i would like to push forward would be treating it like leaves or i would call it Holiday Credits. All employees of a company or government institution should be given the same amount of credits to be consumed on their most revered holiday. So if the RCs and the Protestant sects want to celebrate Christmas, then they can consume most of it there. Same as the Moslems for Ramadan. For the others i don't really know and i don't care, but they now have the freedom to celebrate it by using their leave credits. You can use it to celebrate Flying Spaghetti Monster day or whatever. I'll use it for comic book days, orgy days, april fools day, and halloween

And about "leaders investment for political support", i agree. But as much as i want to attack it, as a student of politics i just treat it as manifestation of Realpolitik. It all boils down to power, and not religion. If i am an atheist but still a politician who want to retain power, i would still consider using these tactics, because they are very effective.

]]> By: Geri Villas http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/12/05/the-secular-sins-of-pgma/comment-page-1/#comment-2069 Geri Villas Wed, 09 Dec 2009 11:25:25 +0000 http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1975#comment-2069 There are many ways to interpret the special religious holidays provided by the state. One of them is in the form of 'bribery' to pacify secular activists just so for the short time benefit of the working class people, like you and me. Another, which I think is more of the case, as the state leader's 'investment' on political support of the whole congregation to advance an agenda, which in the long run comprise much more of a problem than benefit to the whole society. Whatever the case may be, state-sponsored religious holidays are indications that we are still living in a semi-theocratic leadership and secularists need not to be complacent by mere illusion of privilege. I very much commend the outline of your secular universe, and I hope that more and more will realize the urgent need for a secular vanguard in this country. There are many ways to interpret the special religious holidays provided by the state. One of them is in the form of 'bribery' to pacify secular activists just so for the short time benefit of the working class people, like you and me. Another, which I think is more of the case, as the state leader's 'investment' on political support of the whole congregation to advance an agenda, which in the long run comprise much more of a problem than benefit to the whole society. Whatever the case may be, state-sponsored religious holidays are indications that we are still living in a semi-theocratic leadership and secularists need not to be complacent by mere illusion of privilege.

I very much commend the outline of your secular universe, and I hope that more and more will realize the urgent need for a secular vanguard in this country.

]]> By: Geri Villas http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/12/05/the-secular-sins-of-pgma/comment-page-1/#comment-2070 Geri Villas Wed, 09 Dec 2009 03:34:07 +0000 http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1975#comment-2070 Help me on this, you imply that secular violations are happening all over the government and not only limited to executive body, then you complain that what I wrote was an overkill? Help me on this, you imply that secular violations are happening all over the government and not only limited to executive body, then you complain that what I wrote was an overkill?

]]> By: Ram Fernando http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/12/05/the-secular-sins-of-pgma/comment-page-1/#comment-2068 Ram Fernando Tue, 08 Dec 2009 19:30:40 +0000 http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1975#comment-2068 Good job in compiling these, however you can call me "kontrabida" for not campaigning against these holidays. Like i said in our drinking gather, these holidays benefit working people and I will be the last person to fight against additional resources for myself and others. :) Call me a hypocritical secularist, but i won't give you the right to say that to me unless you can prove you are really embodying your protest against these holidays - BY PERFORMING AN ACT OF CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE OF RETURNING YOUR HOLIDAY PAY! LOL Moving on, I'd rather focus on other unsecular practices that would be worth fighting for, like: 1. DISMANTLING and ending the subsidy of government owned structures that are religious in nature, like chapels in state-owned educational institutions and hospitals, and monuments that are religious in nature. 2. Banning the funding of Christmas-related decorations of local, provincial, and national governmental bodies (yeah, you can call me Ebenezer scrooge). 3. A secular-natured overhaul of the public education system which includes the removal of values education / religion subjects and banning of prayer (even ecumenical ones) during school activities. Good job in compiling these, however you can call me "kontrabida" for not campaigning against these holidays. Like i said in our drinking gather, these holidays benefit working people and I will be the last person to fight against additional resources for myself and others. :)

Call me a hypocritical secularist, but i won't give you the right to say that to me unless you can prove you are really embodying your protest against these holidays – BY PERFORMING AN ACT OF CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE OF RETURNING YOUR HOLIDAY PAY! LOL

Moving on, I'd rather focus on other unsecular practices that would be worth fighting for, like:

1. DISMANTLING and ending the subsidy of government owned structures that are religious in nature, like chapels in state-owned educational institutions and hospitals, and monuments that are religious in nature.

2. Banning the funding of Christmas-related decorations of local, provincial, and national governmental bodies (yeah, you can call me Ebenezer scrooge).

3. A secular-natured overhaul of the public education system which includes the removal of values education / religion subjects and banning of prayer (even ecumenical ones) during school activities.

]]> By: Christian Corpuz http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/12/05/the-secular-sins-of-pgma/comment-page-1/#comment-2067 Christian Corpuz Tue, 08 Dec 2009 08:42:48 +0000 http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1975#comment-2067 This is a very good article, however, I believe it is an "overkill". I am an atheist and believe some of her declarations are indeed related if not influenced by different religions, but I want to remind everybody that the executive is not the government. We need to look also at the mistakes committed by the legislative and the judicial branches of the government. Right now, the Philippines would benefit from an enforcement of an acceptable level of tolerance rather than full and total commitment to "political correctness". After we cannot deny it, that the Philippines is not yet ready. This is a very good article, however, I believe it is an "overkill".

I am an atheist and believe some of her declarations are indeed related if not influenced by different religions, but I want to remind everybody that the executive is not the government.

We need to look also at the mistakes committed by the legislative and the judicial branches of the government.

Right now, the Philippines would benefit from an enforcement of an acceptable level of tolerance rather than full and total commitment to "political correctness".

After we cannot deny it, that the Philippines is not yet ready.

]]> By: Ryan Tani http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/12/05/the-secular-sins-of-pgma/comment-page-1/#comment-2066 Ryan Tani Sun, 06 Dec 2009 11:17:47 +0000 http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1975#comment-2066 Excellent job, Geri! One of my favorite posts on the site of all time. Of all time! Excellent job, Geri! One of my favorite posts on the site of all time. Of all time!

]]> By: JPA http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/12/05/the-secular-sins-of-pgma/comment-page-1/#comment-2065 JPA Sat, 05 Dec 2009 22:31:56 +0000 http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1975#comment-2065 Gott mit uns! Sieg Heil Gloria! o o o :)) Gott mit uns!

Sieg Heil Gloria! o o o

:) )

]]> By: mikong http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/12/05/the-secular-sins-of-pgma/comment-page-1/#comment-2064 mikong Sat, 05 Dec 2009 16:28:55 +0000 http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1975#comment-2064 Amazing list! Secular sins indeed. Though I'd let these 2 items pass: June 2003 and 2007 SONA. Amazing list! Secular sins indeed.

Though I'd let these 2 items pass: June 2003 and 2007 SONA.

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