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	<title>Comments on: Time and Life</title>
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	<link>http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/10/31/time-and-life/</link>
	<description>A fellowship of atheists, agnostics, deists, humanists, skeptics, and freethinkers in the Philippines and around the world.</description>
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		<title>By: M Khan</title>
		<link>http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/10/31/time-and-life/comment-page-1/#comment-1539</link>
		<dc:creator>M Khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jul 2010 13:34:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The most real feel of time &#8220;the present&#8221; is infinitesimal. It cannot be measured. Measurement of time is mostly an afterthought. Time also has similarity to recording devices where &#8220;the present&#8221; resembles the sharp recording point like laser and past is comparable to the recorded material while future is the unrecorded portion. In this way past is just a memory. Similar thoughts were expressed by Mc Taggart when he described the similarity between written history and stories in their time characteristics suggesting that past is just like recorded material. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most real feel of time &ldquo;the present&rdquo; is infinitesimal. It cannot be measured. Measurement of time is mostly an afterthought. Time also has similarity to recording devices where &ldquo;the present&rdquo; resembles the sharp recording point like laser and past is comparable to the recorded material while future is the unrecorded portion. In this way past is just a memory. Similar thoughts were expressed by Mc Taggart when he described the similarity between written history and stories in their time characteristics suggesting that past is just like recorded material. </p>
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		<title>By: innerminds</title>
		<link>http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/10/31/time-and-life/comment-page-1/#comment-1538</link>
		<dc:creator>innerminds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1312#comment-1538</guid>
		<description>These workarounds better have something to do with us or information about us &#039;crossing over&#039; to another universe, because like I said earlier, no matter what the final state of our universe will be &#8211; big crunch, big freeze, big rip with &#969; = -1.5, etc. &#8211; all our memories in starlight, thinly stretched as they already are, are at risk of being totally erased as if they never happened at all. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These workarounds better have something to do with us or information about us &#039;crossing over&#039; to another universe, because like I said earlier, no matter what the final state of our universe will be &ndash; big crunch, big freeze, big rip with &omega; = -1.5, etc. &ndash; all our memories in starlight, thinly stretched as they already are, are at risk of being totally erased as if they never happened at all. </p>
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		<title>By: f241vc15</title>
		<link>http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/10/31/time-and-life/comment-page-1/#comment-1537</link>
		<dc:creator>f241vc15</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:37:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1312#comment-1537</guid>
		<description>@innerminds 
 
We are not without hope/possibility of &quot;salvation&quot;. Assuming we don&#039;t destroy or wipe ourselves off this planet due to something stupid we ourselves caused, or due to some low probability but high impact disaster like a meteor crash, we should be able to create workarounds for this dilemma. Some of these workarounds I&#039;ve outlined above. They may seem science fiction for now, but not so in several hundreds or thousands of years. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@innerminds </p>
<p>We are not without hope/possibility of &quot;salvation&quot;. Assuming we don&#039;t destroy or wipe ourselves off this planet due to something stupid we ourselves caused, or due to some low probability but high impact disaster like a meteor crash, we should be able to create workarounds for this dilemma. Some of these workarounds I&#039;ve outlined above. They may seem science fiction for now, but not so in several hundreds or thousands of years. </p>
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		<title>By: f241vc15</title>
		<link>http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/10/31/time-and-life/comment-page-1/#comment-1527</link>
		<dc:creator>f241vc15</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 19:03:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1312#comment-1527</guid>
		<description>@innerminds 
 
Those are actually different things I think. 
First, I&#039;m not even sure there is a maximum or a limit to what entropy or the total disorder in our universe can achieve. In fact, I&#039;m more inclined to think, just as our universe will probably keep on expanding, that entropy will continue to increase indefinitely. That is of course, our current purview, since we know nothing that violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics so far. 
Secondly, photons can surely &quot;survive&quot; and keep on traveling in the cosmos, unless, like I mentioned, there are external forces such as other similar particles collide with them or absorb them, such as that in radiation. They are not affected by increase in entropy, again, so long as they don&#039;t violate the 2nd law. 
Thirdly, the point where no more motion can be sustained, even at the atomic level, what is known as absolute zero, is hardly achievable I think. The temperature would only be close/approximate to absolute zero i.e. zero Kelvin, but not equal to it. Hence there will still be motion, and most probably this will include photons. 
Lastly, photons will survive, but most probably not the information which they carry with them, as there will come a region in the cosmos where this information can no longer be retrieved due to too much &quot;stretching&quot;. That&#039;s why I commented earlier/above on how we can possibly prolong the survivability of our messages and transmissions, which partly document our existence. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@innerminds </p>
<p>Those are actually different things I think.<br />
First, I&#039;m not even sure there is a maximum or a limit to what entropy or the total disorder in our universe can achieve. In fact, I&#039;m more inclined to think, just as our universe will probably keep on expanding, that entropy will continue to increase indefinitely. That is of course, our current purview, since we know nothing that violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics so far.<br />
Secondly, photons can surely &quot;survive&quot; and keep on traveling in the cosmos, unless, like I mentioned, there are external forces such as other similar particles collide with them or absorb them, such as that in radiation. They are not affected by increase in entropy, again, so long as they don&#039;t violate the 2nd law.<br />
Thirdly, the point where no more motion can be sustained, even at the atomic level, what is known as absolute zero, is hardly achievable I think. The temperature would only be close/approximate to absolute zero i.e. zero Kelvin, but not equal to it. Hence there will still be motion, and most probably this will include photons.<br />
Lastly, photons will survive, but most probably not the information which they carry with them, as there will come a region in the cosmos where this information can no longer be retrieved due to too much &quot;stretching&quot;. That&#039;s why I commented earlier/above on how we can possibly prolong the survivability of our messages and transmissions, which partly document our existence. </p>
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		<title>By: innerminds</title>
		<link>http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/10/31/time-and-life/comment-page-1/#comment-1536</link>
		<dc:creator>innerminds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1312#comment-1536</guid>
		<description>Because it appears that no matter what the final state of our universe will be - big crunch, big freeze, big rip with &#969; = -1.5, etc. - all our memories in starlight, thinly stretched as they already are, are at risk of being totally erased as if they never happened at all. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Because it appears that no matter what the final state of our universe will be &#8211; big crunch, big freeze, big rip with &omega; = -1.5, etc. &#8211; all our memories in starlight, thinly stretched as they already are, are at risk of being totally erased as if they never happened at all. </p>
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		<title>By: innerminds</title>
		<link>http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/10/31/time-and-life/comment-page-1/#comment-1526</link>
		<dc:creator>innerminds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:20:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1312#comment-1526</guid>
		<description>Sorry I&#039;m not so good with cosmological terms - I realized by &#039;total entropy&#039; I actually meant the &#039;maximum entropy&#039; in the heat death of the universe where there will be no thermodynamic free energy to sustain motion. Can photons survive this state? Or more precisely, can they survive in such a way that the bits of history they carry are still reflected no matter how &#039;stretched out&#039;? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry I&#039;m not so good with cosmological terms &#8211; I realized by &#039;total entropy&#039; I actually meant the &#039;maximum entropy&#039; in the heat death of the universe where there will be no thermodynamic free energy to sustain motion. Can photons survive this state? Or more precisely, can they survive in such a way that the bits of history they carry are still reflected no matter how &#039;stretched out&#039;? </p>
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		<title>By: innerminds</title>
		<link>http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/10/31/time-and-life/comment-page-1/#comment-1535</link>
		<dc:creator>innerminds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 14:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1312#comment-1535</guid>
		<description>@f241vc15: Thanks! Now you&#039;ve satisfied my question. :) And your last paragraph sounds like good news, in a way answering the last paragraph of my article: 
 
&quot;And if the universe would one day cease to exist, I wonder if there is something beyond to observe all the events from the universe&#8217;s birth to its death, capturing the universe&#8217;s life and every life it supported &#8211; and how each of those lives struggled for survival, evolved, and lived; each joy and each suffering, each triumph and each defeat &#8211; immortalizing everything in a &#8216;time beyond time&#8217;.&quot; </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@f241vc15: Thanks! Now you&#039;ve satisfied my question. <img src='http://filipinofreethinkers.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  And your last paragraph sounds like good news, in a way answering the last paragraph of my article: </p>
<p>&quot;And if the universe would one day cease to exist, I wonder if there is something beyond to observe all the events from the universe&rsquo;s birth to its death, capturing the universe&rsquo;s life and every life it supported &ndash; and how each of those lives struggled for survival, evolved, and lived; each joy and each suffering, each triumph and each defeat &ndash; immortalizing everything in a &lsquo;time beyond time&rsquo;.&quot; </p>
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		<title>By: f241vc15</title>
		<link>http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/10/31/time-and-life/comment-page-1/#comment-1534</link>
		<dc:creator>f241vc15</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1312#comment-1534</guid>
		<description>@innerminds 
 
Even if max. entropy is not achieved, as I mentioned before, there will come a time and region in our universe when the information from light is barely recognizable as information. 
If however, max. entropy is reached i.e. asymptotic/approaching absolute zero, then it&#039;s quite likely that information again in light will be lost. 
But these scenarios are far, far into the future, millions to billions of years. By which time we would have probably found, as I&#039;ve mentioned, workarounds regarding this dilemma. Or we would have crossed-over to parallel universes or someone from other parallel universes would come for us/the information. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@innerminds </p>
<p>Even if max. entropy is not achieved, as I mentioned before, there will come a time and region in our universe when the information from light is barely recognizable as information.<br />
If however, max. entropy is reached i.e. asymptotic/approaching absolute zero, then it&#039;s quite likely that information again in light will be lost.<br />
But these scenarios are far, far into the future, millions to billions of years. By which time we would have probably found, as I&#039;ve mentioned, workarounds regarding this dilemma. Or we would have crossed-over to parallel universes or someone from other parallel universes would come for us/the information. </p>
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		<title>By: Sathepine</title>
		<link>http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/10/31/time-and-life/comment-page-1/#comment-1533</link>
		<dc:creator>Sathepine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1312#comment-1533</guid>
		<description>@innerminds 
If &#969; = -1.5, the answer will be no. Because in that scenario, atoms will be destroyed. Uh, according to Wikipedia. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@innerminds<br />
If &omega; = -1.5, the answer will be no. Because in that scenario, atoms will be destroyed. Uh, according to Wikipedia. </p>
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		<title>By: innerminds</title>
		<link>http://filipinofreethinkers.org/2009/10/31/time-and-life/comment-page-1/#comment-1532</link>
		<dc:creator>innerminds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 13:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://filipinofreethinkers.org/?p=1312#comment-1532</guid>
		<description>@Sathepine: Thanks for the compliment. :) 
 
@f241vc15/Sathepine: Can photons survive a Big Rip in such a way that they still reflect the bits of history they carry no matter how thinly &#039;stretched&#039;? :) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sathepine: Thanks for the compliment. <img src='http://filipinofreethinkers.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>@f241vc15/Sathepine: Can photons survive a Big Rip in such a way that they still reflect the bits of history they carry no matter how thinly &#039;stretched&#039;? <img src='http://filipinofreethinkers.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
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